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Losing all faith in the line


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#76 stitch13

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 06:04 PM

I think this was Dwight's plan all along. Starve us for new figures so we all kill each other off. Dastardly!



#77 CobraSaboteur87

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 11:23 PM

@ddhawkins

Don't start a fire if you're afraid to get burned buddy. So long my impaired friend and Godspeed!

@stitch13

LOL

#78 PsychoPirate

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 03:02 PM

This pattern is not a coincidence as Hasbro has officially stated that mass release, annual SA 3.75 lines like the kind of yesteryear are simply "cost prohibitive" I'm not trying to explain them or defend them, just reiterating their own words. 

 

I never heard or read about hem saying this.  When/where did they say it?



#79 stitch13

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 05:57 PM

 

This pattern is not a coincidence as Hasbro has officially stated that mass release, annual SA 3.75 lines like the kind of yesteryear are simply "cost prohibitive" I'm not trying to explain them or defend them, just reiterating their own words. 

 

I never heard or read about hem saying this.  When/where did they say it?

 

I'm pretty sure I remember them saying that specifically in reference to the 3.75" Star Wars Black Series, but I can't remember where.



#80 CobraSaboteur87

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 06:52 PM

Stitch is correct. Steve Evans, design director for SW, has stated this more then once-about SA 3.75. He went on to elaborate about how the materials (soft goods, plastic,) oil production, labor, etc have all gone up significantly (I.e. less margin) with regards to producing SA 3.75 and also about producing them on a mass scale basis like before. I'm 99.99% sure I've also heard Jesse Falcon basically echo the exact same sentiment when he was asked about MU at a con from a year or two ago-can't remember exactly where however.

#81 dragonkings

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 12:02 AM

Stitch is correct. Steve Evans, design director for SW, has stated this more then once-about SA 3.75. He went on to elaborate about how the materials (soft goods, plastic,) oil production, labor, etc have all gone up significantly (I.e. less margin) with regards to producing SA 3.75 and also about producing them on a mass scale basis like before. I'm 99.99% sure I've also heard Jesse Falcon basically echo the exact same sentiment when he was asked about MU at a con from a year or two ago-can't remember exactly where however.

And when they said this way back when,
I respond with its total bullshit.

If cost of Materials , merchandise size shrinks not grows.... So why then why focus on larger figures? (Have you SEEN those giant figures they make now and how cheap they are?)they even Make less articulated 6 inch figures at a fraction of the 3.75 cost?

ML and SW 6 inch black drown in Acc. And some even have Build a figure parts and the price isn't that significantly higher.

The price of 3.75 inch figures has gone up anyway while articulation has gone to #$@#, paint work has gotten sloppy and #$@# sculpts are becoming standard fair.


So no,

The price of materials isn't the MAIN reason these are being fazed out.

It's a Hasbro (then Mattel because they just copycatting) decision to focus on "bigger" figures.


If I can buy Shodo 3.75 inch (lower quality but not much) for 5-10 bucks each,
Revoltech Mini High end figures for 25-30 bucks.

It's about someone in the decision making part of Hasbro saying screw the articulated, quality smaller scaled figures and seeing what little they can give us while raising prices as much as they can get away with.

At this point I just want another company to join the toy fray and take all these 3.75 inch action figure properties that Hasbro and Mattel #$@# on and do something radically new with them.

#82 Axonrey

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 07:07 AM

Yeah, the cost of materials thing does seem a little, at least, exaggerated.  And I might not think that if it wasn't for a $50 12" line that nobody demanded, or wants, that are all being clearance constantly for around $30, or the aforementioned reduced articulation 6" line for about $8.  All that info just doesn't quite sync up.  I also find it ironic since the increase in material costs is actually what led to the creation of the GI Joe 3.75 scale (in lieu of the cost prohibitive 12" line), which had enhanced articulation and used metal parts.

 

Unless, by "cost prohibitive", they mean "would make us less money", which isn't necessarily the same thing.  But, they are a private enterprise, so they can do whatever they want in that regard.



#83 PsychoPirate

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 08:06 AM

Unless, by "cost prohibitive", they mean "would make us less money", which isn't necessarily the same thing.  But, they are a private enterprise, so they can do whatever they want in that regard.


I think that is why CobraSaboteur was speaking in terms of "margin," which is an arbitrary and unknown (to us) magic line related to profit. If this statement was made when crude oil prices spiked, then maybe the materials *portion* of the statement was less BS then. But I think labor costs are the dominant cause of increased costs over the past 5-7 years.

Of course, they studiously avoid mentioning the cost of the license itself, another unknown amount that was renegotiated several years ago.

The chief advantage of going with a higher-priced per-unit cost is having more wiggle room in your profit margin. Hence, $20-23 6" Legends and 2-packs for the 3.75" scale has been preferred. And this is probably true for both Hasbro and the retailers.

#84 Axonrey

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:00 AM

And me, as well.  I'd rather pay $20 for the two pack than $13 for a single. 



#85 CobraSaboteur87

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 06:07 PM

Margin is not magical and is the antithesis of arbitrary when being contextualized to determine how much return you are seeing on your goods (I.E. how much money you are actually making) I know not everyone has a business background like me but I'm pretty sure everyone can understand margin if they tried lol.

We don't have to agree or even "believe" what Hasbro tells us with regards to how they handle their SA 3.75 lines but the proof is in the pudding. They unilaterally phased out production of their 3.75 lines to minimal levels and doubled down on the 6in front for one simple reason: Margin

They use the term "cost prohibitive" for two reasons:
1. It has a much more PC, business rhetoric interview friendly tone than "we don't make as much money as we used to make on 3.75 so that's why you all are getting 6in by a significantly larger percentage" Let's be real guys...it's not like all of the SA 3.75 collectors up and vanished all of a sudden and the lines were not scaled down from "lack of interest"
2. With regards to Hasbro's business model (and giant corporations just like them) the term "cost prohibitive" means exactly the same thing as "making less money"

If cost prohibitive meant Hasbro was making zero-$1 profit on 3.75, then we wouldn't get ANY 3.75 figs a year. Period.

The MSRP of a unit sold is irrelevant to margin, it's about how much money can they actually make off the product. For example, if you walk into a Toys R Us, you will see that some of the most expensive things they sell across the board are new video game hardware (consoles) and a new Xbox or PS has practically the lowest margin in the store. If a store sold every console they had in stock, across every type, that store would be having a killer day with a massive increase in sales volume but the margin on all of those sales are so low, it's not gong to really help the monthly profit quota in the slightest. Video Game software is sold for $60 and the cost is $50...terrible margin. Ever wonder why Gamestop pushes re-furbished consoles and used games down your throat? It's so they can make money lol.

#86 dragonkings

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 06:30 PM

Much respect but a business lesson isn't gonna make their arguments any more true (business wise forcing anchor figures that were peg warmers in each wave and Constant 2 pack waves that were just repacks and repaints were colossal missteps that showed a lack of business management or understanding of market) They still increased price per unit and never took advantage of scale for secondary merchandise like dioramas, playsets etc.
business is obvious for profit and leadership decisions are often arbitrary when dealing with people that want to dictate market instead of catering it. 6 inch is being pushed and doubled down on.
The profit of margin for selling a two pack of 3.75 and a single 6 inch with BAF and acc. has to be close enough.

A business decision was made to push 6 inch figures. In the real world it's decision, product and advertising to prove what is product.

Why McFarlane became so relevant in the 90's to early 2000's then faded away but creeping back.

Business was done so and so way by big corporations and they were unwilling to change.
But they adapted and gained ground once this "outsider" changed the game.

I clearly remember a 2-3 year gap where stores had empty pegs where the 3.75 figures were marked then bam heavy push for 6 inch figures by hasbro and store owners.

There was a change up and then a restructuring follwed by a product push. And most bought into it and changed with them.

Funny part is the fact there is such a demand for 3.75 they haven't totally cancelled this scale is a testament there are still enough people to not "quite" cancel this line the way they hoped.

So the slow drawn out death,

But these things cycle,

So we will see.

Hence the I want another company in the game to force the competition to make them take this scale seriously again.

The market is ripe for it,

6 inch is pushed hard and is king but a clever marketer could in theory swoop in and make this scale profitable again especially since there is virtually no serious competition in this scale anymore

#87 CobraSaboteur87

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 07:52 PM

May I ask what you are referring to with regards to stores having pegs for 3.75 figs for 2-3 years but no product was on the pegs? Since I'm a massive completist and am more than familiar with these lines, this comment is intriguing because I have no idea of what your talking about. I also don't understand the 6in surge/push comment lol. I mean in 2013, the 6in SW figs came out and 6in Legends were re-invented into what we now know circa early 2014 so in those respects, yes a big push was placed on 6in at that time but that was also correlative to the down-sizing of 3.75 in conjunction.

Also, McFarlane wasn't pushed out of the game because he didn't adapt by not making 3.75 when 3.75 was beginning its climb to the new golden era (2006-2012) It's because retail partners pushed him out. McFarlane (like it or not) was always a trailblazer and never looked at the competition when deciding a toy line-in short, he didn't have to look to other other companies because his stuff was always unique and miles ahead of most toy lines with the sculpting/paint. He just kept getting push back after push back by the big retailers towards the end because they were saying his figures were just too mature/violent/gross/etc to be on the shelf. TRU gave him the biggest problem on this. Todd has been very vocal about all of this so no need to take my word for it. I for one couldn't be happier that he's back in the game now with his patented 7in figs and his color tops line is awesome. Neca has also been killing it too with each year getting better and better.

To put things in perspective, Todd was getting push back from TRU towards the end of his massive Spawn run (among other lines) circa 2005/2006 because the figures were too grotesque. Circa 10 years later and you can walk into a TRU and buy a Predator accessory pack which is literally a 6in corpse, completely skinned of flesh, plus several decapitated heads/mutilated skulls. If THAT isn't a sign of shifting acceptable toy culture (and change of heart from a kids toy store) then I don't know what is lol.

Obviously, we now live in a very different pop culture landscape and some of the TOP shows on TV are programs like Walking Dead and Game of Thrones, of which are EXTREMELY gory/violent/mature. To be honest, I still find myself in disbelief as to what can be gotten away with on TV these days, the culture and level of what can be found acceptable has changed so drastically in the past 5+ years or so that's it's just nuts. (In a good way)

Also, while I understand Hasbros business decisions on the 3.75 front, that doesn't for one second mean I don't recognize their blunders, missed opportunities and mistakes. There's more examples of that than I can even write...to beat a dead horse, as a massive 3.75 fan...it sucks.

Also, I know many people wonder if/want other independent 3.75 companies (like boss fight for example) to take over Hasbros 3.75 brands since ALL OF THEM are being dragged through the mud but unfortunately, none of those companies have the funds to acquire the rights to it-not even close. Hasbro also "leasing" the rights to these said smaller companies is also completely unrealistic because the company would have to be getting paid "something" for producing the figs...which means even less profit for Hasbro on a scale that already has low margin. No matter how anyone spins it, it just won't happen I'm afraid.

#88 PsychoPirate

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:23 PM

Ah, there is an ignore feature after all. Cool.

#89 dragonkings

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:50 PM

Lmao,

Ok I wasn't talking about Todd and 3.75 just That he changed the landscape by making hyper articulated figures aimed at collectors....
(Maybe I didn't make myself clear, that was my mistake)

While it was a different lead in, dunno why you'd think I was talking about 3.75 inch being his downfall. I said no such thing. And I dropped the point about why he fell because there was alot of reasons, mainly on his being inflexable with changing his business models towards the end.. nothing more.

You kinda just started arguing with yourself at one point.

Lets just agree to disagree,

I don't want to spend more time arguing over opinions especially online.

(Especially since the original point was saying cost of materials, and that was clearly bullshit)

Price and profit may be true but that wasn't the original point being made.
The sticky point was that they claimed Materials was the reason for cut backs and Removing articulation... when anyone watching the other scales they pushed it was not the real reason.


Btw.. yes There were pegs of Empty figure lines, remember the time gap between the last MU waves Prof X wave and the failed relaunches?

the push was to 6 inch figures in the same time frame when Vonner was pushed out and there was a general reassessment concerning market loss by Hasbro in that same period.

#90 dragonkings

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:56 PM

Ah, there is an ignore feature after all. Cool.


😂,

Sorry for my part in hijacking the thread..

😂

#91 CobraSaboteur87

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 11:15 PM

@dragonkings

First off, don't you go apologizing to PsychoPirate lol we are all talking (for the most part) about the "then & now" of 3.75 lines IN a thread about 3.75 figures so I'd say we are pretty much on topic. Furthermore, just as these last few exchanges we've had show evidence of, we are actually talking about the REAL meat and potatoes of the 3.75 line by vocalizing educated points about specific things of the format as well as dropping some actual facts (not only just opinions) into the mix to give the thread some credibility.

What I mean by credibility ("weight" might be the more operative description) is that these conversations go a little beyond just posting age old things like "I really wish Hasbro would give the same love to 3.75 as they do 6in...I just don't get it" I understand why...as do you...as does Axonrey and others and now other members who might not have understood, can now maybe have some talking points to discuss the topic further with potential new found info.

Idk, I may be giving the conversation we are all having too much credit but personally, I enjoy these types of exchanges as they are far elevated above the status quo of "Hasbro sucks" or "the 3.75 line is dead, guess I'll spend my money elsewhere" or what have you-you can surmise my point I imagine.

Additionally, I KNOW my style of writing and attitude can be something of an acquired taste...or simply wrote off as overly long-winded, elitist gas bagging...but hey man, I'm cool with that.

With regards to McFarlane, you couldnt have hit the nail on the head more with the denotion of "inflexible" I happen to find that as an endearing quality about him because I'm such a MASSIVE supporter of what he has done with the toy industry (and can still do with it) BUT...sometimes he is without a doubt his own worst enemy. You are also correct about my response to you about him & 3.75...I was bleeding too many things together and simply misspoke so that's my bad.

I haven't felt in the slightest that I have been argumentative with you (others, yeah probably but I'm always going to call out nonsense) so I'm not sure where you felt I was, but...perception is reality so if I gave off that aura then know it was not my intent (not that I don't enjoy healthy arguing when it's needed) by any means.

As far as Hasbro citing materials cost, well...we already covered the "real reason" lol

I see a little more clearly as to what you were referring to regarding the empty pegs and "gap" in figures but it's the 2-3 years part that threw me off and was in turn the reason I asked for elaboration. Wave 21 was the Prof X wave and that shipped towards the late summer/early fall of 2012 if I remember correctly. I was managing a TRU at the time and remember opening the cases off the truck in the back when the wave hit-want to say it was late summer 2012 but I could be wrong. Series 5 (Wave 22-23) started in 2013 and ran 22 figs and then Wave 24 (Infinite wave 1) landed in again I want to say in late summer of 2014. There was definitely a gap (as we know why) between wave 23 & 24 but I don't remember it being for more than 9 months, a year tops. Regardless, I know the timeframe you are speaking of but didn't quite understand the comment the first time in the previous post.

#92 dragonkings

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 11:40 PM

Yes, that time period kept getting long gaps of empty pegs,
Maybe I exaggerated a bit but yes that period saw a slow faze out of Marvel 3.75 and GI Joe (which got me into this scale AND collecting MU figures)

I love the Revoltech micro* figures,

Yes they are pricier but very cool,

I wonder if a Foreign company can make figures for a foreign market with Licenses from Disney and "allow" imports to the US so we can complete our Teams at the very least?

Lol, I know... wishful thinking.
I mean Hasbro owns Wizards of the Coast and they let a smaller company make Plainswalkers figures...
(Even though it bombed)

*edit, Micro line not mini line.

#93 CobraSaboteur87

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 09:17 AM

Yeah man I hear you, G.I.Joes were the first toys I got as a kid and as a result, it is still hands down my favorite brand. I mean I'm happy that we get the FSS every year but I would do anything for Joes to come back in full swing lol.

I'm not familiar with the revoltech mini figs, what licenses do they produce figures for?

Also, out of all of the wishful thinking ideas I've heard regarding Hasbro subletting their 3.75 license, I believe your idea about the foreign markets probably has the most traction as there are several overseas Japanese publishers that have plenty of capital from what I can tell.

Overall, I think SW SA 3.75 going the way of Joes through FSS (same style as Joes, Vintage cards, etc) would be a marketable move at the end of the day since we all know SW collectors are probably the most global toy collecting community out there. However, I don't see a FSS for Marvel 3.75 being that successful though. Joe fans are keeping the FSS alive at around $30 a figure and I think the transition of SW could have the same success but I'm not sure there's enough Marvel 3.75 collectors out there to justify it. I only say that since fans have been collecting 3.75 SW since the late 70s and Joes since the early 80s...but MU 3.75 didn't really become a real thing until 2009. I don't know though, I could be wrong.

Anyone else's thoughts on that?

#94 dragonkings

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:48 AM

When you get the chance peek out the revoltech "micro" line
(4 inch line)

They have Done

Iron Man

War Machine

Metal Gear Cyber Ninja

Solid Snake

That guy from M.U.S.C.L.E. kikkoman or something



http://www.bigbadtoy...Revoltech micro

Here is a link to BBTS

I regret not getting the War Machine,

during pre-order the prices were in the 24.99 range.

Cool figures though, your like for it may vary.

But Needed a Solid Snake and Cyberninja for my Joe crew.

#95 Axonrey

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 05:21 PM

Revoltech micro did a handful is street fighter characters, but the aftermarket on the original characters is a little absurd. But the minis are fun. Picked up a cheap one from some anime that I've never heard of and it was pretty tight.

#96 CobraSaboteur87

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 10:51 PM

Yeah I just looked up those revoltech 4in figs off the bbts link dragon provided and WOW those are cool as hell! The pricing was a TAD high, at least with regards to what bbts was showing but damn they were great looking. I'm a huge MGS fan so i might have to throw down in those at some point lol thanks dragon, my wallet needed that.

This all just makes me wish McFarlane would pick up the license again. I was going through a ton of boxes in the garage the other day with the wife and I came across the box with all my carded (and a full set loose) MGS figs...so badass

#97 wedge1968

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 07:47 AM

Revoltech did a few Transformers too, and they are gorgeous. I've been buying others from Custom Robots recently. Transformer fans should check them out.

#98 Dodge76

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 05:36 AM

I saw the writing on the wall on this line when they started taking stands away saying they had too to try to keep costs down, then they did away with those small card artwork covers then did away with the packaging claiming the same thing. I knew it was only a matter of time til they started to cut into the figures themselves with less articulation and poor paint.

 

It's a pity we could not get one more year of good quality figures and we could have had a solid Black Cat, Bishop, Jim Lee Beast, Vulture, Chameleon, and others. But after I got those I pretty much felt like that was it for me as far as buying them online. If I see these sitting on a store shelf and I feel like why not then I grab them like the new Wolverine figure and the 80's Rogue.

 

I enjoy my 3.75 line collection. I have the Marvel Universe figures, GiJoe, Star Wars, Pirates of the Caribbean, Tron, and much more. It's sad to see this scale being in the shape it is now. I was getting reading to buy some new Star Wars figures when The Force Awakens hit theaters and there was not much out there. I was hoping to get a Genreal Leia and Old Man Luke figures but nothing. They did gives us a Leia figure in her blue gown she wore at the end of the movie but I was wanting the other. I am not going to collect the 6 inch Star Wars figures because I already have that collection established in the 3.75 scale.

 

I am just happy we got what we got.






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