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JohnnyRebelV2

Hasbro Lies...

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I have to say that I highly doubt this to be the end of the 6" Legends line. First example, look at how well the Hulk/Fin Fang Foom wave is selling. Secondly, people are constantly clamoring for more figures, re-issues and obscure characters. Third, based on the fact that they are all exclusives, the next three waves (Ares/Red Hulk/Nemesis) are going to sell tremendously better (theoretically) than the more recent waves (Annihilus/Blob/Brood Queen).

 

There is just too much demand for the 6" line. Even the Iron Man Movie figures sold extremely well. I think Hasbro purposely did not release any Legends until the recent FFF Wave too build up interest and demand. Last years waves were weak and overproduced (Diamond Emma Frost), thus cloggin the shelves. Now, they are hitting us with over 50 figures before Christmas. I would bet money that we as collectors will not be able to get every figure we want from the shelves. All of these Target/Wal-Mart exclusives, as well as the numerous variants are going to be hard to come by. I think the next few waves and two-packs are going to do huge numbers.

 

One of the reasons for the two-packs is to cut costs on packaging and what not. Now if you want a Forge,you must also purchase a Wolverine. Now, you are spending $20 instead of $10. This company (Hasbro) has been along for awhile and they are not stupid. If they continue to make a profit from Marvel Legends, then they will continue to release them.

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Hey geniuses, Hasbro already knows two lines can co-exist. They've been doing it with other properties for years now. Heck, they've even been doing it with Marvel (Superhero Squad, anybody?). Hasbro isn't the problem. Retailers are the problem...they're the ones that tend not to want "more than one line" on the shelves at once. They also really didn't like all those leftovers of HML 1 and 2 that had to be clearanced out. The "hibernation" of 6" Marvel Legends probably has less to do with Hasbro's plans and more to do with Wal-Mart and Target saying they want something that takes up less shelf-space on their plan-o-grams.

 

 

Which means that Hasbro's lip service to us, the collectors, is just that? Lip Service?

 

I'm not disagreeing with you. I concur wholeheartedly that Hasbro's first and only commitment is to the retailers that spend BILLIONS of dollars with them every year. If its fiscally viable to continue to make Legends and make a healthy profit, they will do so. But you have to wonder when the FOUR Spider-Man waves they offered this year were all repaints and redecos and rereleases of figure ToyBiz released years ago. Collectors already HAVE those figures. And so they languished on the pegs. Wal-Marts senior toy buyer doesn't look at individual figures. They look at numbers. And the numbers on those figures were lack luster because they were old repackaged figures. Don't you think the numbers would have looked different if the first Spider-Man wave had consisted of EIGHT BRAND NEW SCULPTS? But, of course, this would have cost Hasbro, new R/D costs, new sculpting and tooling costs, where as just using old molds allowed them that small profit percentage to show the shareholders.

 

So it's in Hasbro's best interest to NOT come up with new sculpts and figures for an already burgeoning 6" line. Imagine the 6" line are $10 a figure at WM. If that's a 100% profit mark up, WM bought them for $5 a figure from Hasbro. If Hasbro wants a 100% profit markup, it has to cost $2.50 a figure to R/D, manufacture, market, and ship.

 

Marvel Legends have 30 or more points of articulation. Which means each separate interconnecting part has to be separately tooled and mass produced, even the small knee joint, or wrist joint, or whatever. Which takes up more "conveyor belts" at the plant in Taiwan ( I'm being simplistic, but I hope you can understand I'm just trying to make a point). Which means it costs more money with a smaller profit percentage to produce a highly articulated 6" figure, than it does a smaller 3 3/4 " figure. And less joints on the smaller figure means less individual toolings which means a larger percentage of the manufacturing plants resources can be devoted to a wider variety of figures.

 

Bigger figures also fill less in a case, with more packaging, which means less figures on a pallet, and less figures on the freighter bringing shipments over.

 

So Hasbro knows they can skyrocket the profits by offering a smaller ( less plastic, less packaging) figure with less articulation ( less toolings) and ship more (a greater figure-shipping fuel ration than larger figures) over to the U.S. Then sell them for only slightly less then the more expensive 6" figures. It's a "licensed" product like Star Wars so they can use that to sell them at $8 so using the 100% mark up ratio ( again, this is simplistic for the sake of argument, there are literally a hundred factors involved) they are having to make the figures for under $2.00 to turn the 100% profit curve. Taking into account the much lower tooling, packaging and shipping costs of the 3 3/4 line vs the 6" line, its looking VERRRRY nice on the ledgers to talk up the smaller line to retailers.

 

I'd wager the 6" line is probably not hitting the 100% profit target for either Hasbro OR the retailers. Sadly, it's probably around 75%-90% which is perfectly reasonable to us the collectors as we are not greedy SOBs that run billion dollar companies. But the alternative looks that much sweeter to them.

 

So it's not really about "blaming" Hasbro or "blaming" the retailers. It's the fact that Hasbro talks about listening to collectors and wants and feedback on websites and Q&As and all this other BS, when they are really just looking out for their bottom line and feeding consumers a bunch of manure. The 6" is still a viable property, but they have stopped putting effort into it because now they have their new baby, the Puniverse Line. Honestly, if they had unveiled this and then shown us a wave or two of Legends for next year, it would have been great. But the reason Marvel is such a juggernaut for them and the reason they wanted to acquire the license in the first place was because of the Legends line. Now it's become their ugly stepchild. That isn't really fair to the "collectors" they claim to listen to and react to their criticisms and kudos.

 

 

I sincerely hope that what some of you are suggesting comes to pass. That the Legends line isn't dead, it's only dormant. But you have to admit that not showing ANYTHING for 2009 is a little suspect. If there more 2-packs in the pipeline like Aurora/Northstar or something similar, wouldn't it have been beneficial to show that to us and appease us a little? but instead they show us NOTHING from next year? That doesn't raise your eyebrow at all? Even a little? Because to me, reading between the lines, it seems fairly obvious that Legends has been put on the back burner in favor of the smaller line.

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hasbro said the 2 packs are going to have bigger people than normal like radioactive man and wintersoldier, or dragonman and terrax. with my thought on this i think hasbro still sucks but they are trying but not hard enough. but i think they might continue the baf waves after they get through with the two packs, i think they cant think of any bafs lol... maybe if they read forums more often they'd see more baf ideas like maybe dragon man or strong guy for the wolverine origns they are kind of new so i am not sure if they know what there doing like toybiz i'll give them a three more chances, if they fail i have lost all faith in hasbro marvel legends and will just hope that they will lose there lisecnce and get transfered back to toybiz. you never know.

 

p:s whhy did toybiz lose there lisecnce, anyway?

 

 

im mad .....

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Hey geniuses, Hasbro already knows two lines can co-exist. They've been doing it with other properties for years now. Heck, they've even been doing it with Marvel (Superhero Squad, anybody?). Hasbro isn't the problem. Retailers are the problem...they're the ones that tend not to want "more than one line" on the shelves at once. They also really didn't like all those leftovers of HML 1 and 2 that had to be clearanced out. The "hibernation" of 6" Marvel Legends probably has less to do with Hasbro's plans and more to do with Wal-Mart and Target saying they want something that takes up less shelf-space on their plan-o-grams.

 

 

Which means that Hasbro's lip service to us, the collectors, is just that? Lip Service?

 

I'm not disagreeing with you. I concur wholeheartedly that Hasbro's first and only commitment is to the retailers that spend BILLIONS of dollars with them every year. If its fiscally viable to continue to make Legends and make a healthy profit, they will do so. But you have to wonder when the FOUR Spider-Man waves they offered this year were all repaints and redecos and rereleases of figure ToyBiz released years ago. Collectors already HAVE those figures. And so they languished on the pegs. Wal-Marts senior toy buyer doesn't look at individual figures. They look at numbers. And the numbers on those figures were lack luster because they were old repackaged figures. Don't you think the numbers would have looked different if the first Spider-Man wave had consisted of EIGHT BRAND NEW SCULPTS? But, of course, this would have cost Hasbro, new R/D costs, new sculpting and tooling costs, where as just using old molds allowed them that small profit percentage to show the shareholders.

 

So it's in Hasbro's best interest to NOT come up with new sculpts and figures for an already burgeoning 6" line. Imagine the 6" line are $10 a figure at WM. If that's a 100% profit mark up, WM bought them for $5 a figure from Hasbro. If Hasbro wants a 100% profit markup, it has to cost $2.50 a figure to R/D, manufacture, market, and ship.

 

Marvel Legends have 30 or more points of articulation. Which means each separate interconnecting part has to be separately tooled and mass produced, even the small knee joint, or wrist joint, or whatever. Which takes up more "conveyor belts" at the plant in Taiwan ( I'm being simplistic, but I hope you can understand I'm just trying to make a point). Which means it costs more money with a smaller profit percentage to produce a highly articulated 6" figure, than it does a smaller 3 3/4 " figure. And less joints on the smaller figure means less individual toolings which means a larger percentage of the manufacturing plants resources can be devoted to a wider variety of figures.

 

Bigger figures also fill less in a case, with more packaging, which means less figures on a pallet, and less figures on the freighter bringing shipments over.

 

So Hasbro knows they can skyrocket the profits by offering a smaller ( less plastic, less packaging) figure with less articulation ( less toolings) and ship more (a greater figure-shipping fuel ration than larger figures) over to the U.S. Then sell them for only slightly less then the more expensive 6" figures. It's a "licensed" product like Star Wars so they can use that to sell them at $8 so using the 100% mark up ratio ( again, this is simplistic for the sake of argument, there are literally a hundred factors involved) they are having to make the figures for under $2.00 to turn the 100% profit curve. Taking into account the much lower tooling, packaging and shipping costs of the 3 3/4 line vs the 6" line, its looking VERRRRY nice on the ledgers to talk up the smaller line to retailers.

 

I'd wager the 6" line is probably not hitting the 100% profit target for either Hasbro OR the retailers. Sadly, it's probably around 75%-90% which is perfectly reasonable to us the collectors as we are not greedy SOBs that run billion dollar companies. But the alternative looks that much sweeter to them.

 

So it's not really about "blaming" Hasbro or "blaming" the retailers. It's the fact that Hasbro talks about listening to collectors and wants and feedback on websites and Q&As and all this other BS, when they are really just looking out for their bottom line and feeding consumers a bunch of manure. The 6" is still a viable property, but they have stopped putting effort into it because now they have their new baby, the Puniverse Line. Honestly, if they had unveiled this and then shown us a wave or two of Legends for next year, it would have been great. But the reason Marvel is such a juggernaut for them and the reason they wanted to acquire the license in the first place was because of the Legends line. Now it's become their ugly stepchild. That isn't really fair to the "collectors" they claim to listen to and react to their criticisms and kudos.

 

 

I sincerely hope that what some of you are suggesting comes to pass. That the Legends line isn't dead, it's only dormant. But you have to admit that not showing ANYTHING for 2009 is a little suspect. If there more 2-packs in the pipeline like Aurora/Northstar or something similar, wouldn't it have been beneficial to show that to us and appease us a little? but instead they show us NOTHING from next year? That doesn't raise your eyebrow at all? Even a little? Because to me, reading between the lines, it seems fairly obvious that Legends has been put on the back burner in favor of the smaller line.

 

which means hasbro is lazy and cant afford the paints and plastic for the articulation... they make like 500 differnt toys they atleast should be able to afford something they should have never took the lisence from toybiz, but you have a good point :profx: :spidey_read_thread: hasbro just makes me mad :hulk: :hulk:

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The lack of product for 2009 isn't necessarily a sign that HML is disappearing. People keep discounting the 2-packs that are supposedly continuing, and quite frankly those things are awesome so far.

 

There's also the possibility of exclusive waves.

 

It sounds like there's a 6" Wolverine Movie line in the works...if Hasbro had lost all faith in the 6" scale, they'd probably make these 3 3/4" right?

 

It's quite possible Marvel Legends will basically be off the shelves for a year or so. The same thing happened with G.I. Joe and Sigma 6, but Hasbro still found ways to get "old style" product to the collectors.

 

Still, I'm thinking Hasbro is clearing the waters for the 3 3/4" line. If it's successful, then Hasbro might be willing to see how they can revive the 6" line. If it's not successful, then Hasbro might go back to the 6" format. Either way, Hasbro isn't usually inclined to simply give up on a line for all time. It might go away for a year or two, but it almost always comes back in some form or another.

 

It's a complicated relationship between Hasbro, retailers and collectors. Hasbro as a company has its' first responsibility to its shareholders and its' buyers. The guys actually working on the toys, though, tend to be fans themselves, and genuinely seem to want to please the collectors. As noted, the Wal-Mart buyers don't tend to look at individual figures, at least beyond making sure there's a character or two they recognize in every wave. That's where the leeway comes in for Hasbro to try to fulfill the collector wants. So you get your wave with a Captain America or Wolverine or your crappy movie figures, but you also get your Black Knights, Yellowjackets, She-Hulks, or HYDRA Soldiers in there, too.

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Hey geniuses, Hasbro already knows two lines can co-exist. They've been doing it with other properties for years now. Heck, they've even been doing it with Marvel (Superhero Squad, anybody?). Hasbro isn't the problem. Retailers are the problem...they're the ones that tend not to want "more than one line" on the shelves at once. They also really didn't like all those leftovers of HML 1 and 2 that had to be clearanced out. The "hibernation" of 6" Marvel Legends probably has less to do with Hasbro's plans and more to do with Wal-Mart and Target saying they want something that takes up less shelf-space on their plan-o-grams.

 

 

Which means that Hasbro's lip service to us, the collectors, is just that? Lip Service?

 

I'm not disagreeing with you. I concur wholeheartedly that Hasbro's first and only commitment is to the retailers that spend BILLIONS of dollars with them every year. If its fiscally viable to continue to make Legends and make a healthy profit, they will do so. But you have to wonder when the FOUR Spider-Man waves they offered this year were all repaints and redecos and rereleases of figure ToyBiz released years ago. Collectors already HAVE those figures. And so they languished on the pegs. Wal-Marts senior toy buyer doesn't look at individual figures. They look at numbers. And the numbers on those figures were lack luster because they were old repackaged figures. Don't you think the numbers would have looked different if the first Spider-Man wave had consisted of EIGHT BRAND NEW SCULPTS? But, of course, this would have cost Hasbro, new R/D costs, new sculpting and tooling costs, where as just using old molds allowed them that small profit percentage to show the shareholders.

 

So it's in Hasbro's best interest to NOT come up with new sculpts and figures for an already burgeoning 6" line. Imagine the 6" line are $10 a figure at WM. If that's a 100% profit mark up, WM bought them for $5 a figure from Hasbro. If Hasbro wants a 100% profit markup, it has to cost $2.50 a figure to R/D, manufacture, market, and ship.

 

Marvel Legends have 30 or more points of articulation. Which means each separate interconnecting part has to be separately tooled and mass produced, even the small knee joint, or wrist joint, or whatever. Which takes up more "conveyor belts" at the plant in Taiwan ( I'm being simplistic, but I hope you can understand I'm just trying to make a point). Which means it costs more money with a smaller profit percentage to produce a highly articulated 6" figure, than it does a smaller 3 3/4 " figure. And less joints on the smaller figure means less individual toolings which means a larger percentage of the manufacturing plants resources can be devoted to a wider variety of figures.

 

Bigger figures also fill less in a case, with more packaging, which means less figures on a pallet, and less figures on the freighter bringing shipments over.

 

So Hasbro knows they can skyrocket the profits by offering a smaller ( less plastic, less packaging) figure with less articulation ( less toolings) and ship more (a greater figure-shipping fuel ration than larger figures) over to the U.S. Then sell them for only slightly less then the more expensive 6" figures. It's a "licensed" product like Star Wars so they can use that to sell them at $8 so using the 100% mark up ratio ( again, this is simplistic for the sake of argument, there are literally a hundred factors involved) they are having to make the figures for under $2.00 to turn the 100% profit curve. Taking into account the much lower tooling, packaging and shipping costs of the 3 3/4 line vs the 6" line, its looking VERRRRY nice on the ledgers to talk up the smaller line to retailers.

 

I'd wager the 6" line is probably not hitting the 100% profit target for either Hasbro OR the retailers. Sadly, it's probably around 75%-90% which is perfectly reasonable to us the collectors as we are not greedy SOBs that run billion dollar companies. But the alternative looks that much sweeter to them.

 

So it's not really about "blaming" Hasbro or "blaming" the retailers. It's the fact that Hasbro talks about listening to collectors and wants and feedback on websites and Q&As and all this other BS, when they are really just looking out for their bottom line and feeding consumers a bunch of manure. The 6" is still a viable property, but they have stopped putting effort into it because now they have their new baby, the Puniverse Line. Honestly, if they had unveiled this and then shown us a wave or two of Legends for next year, it would have been great. But the reason Marvel is such a juggernaut for them and the reason they wanted to acquire the license in the first place was because of the Legends line. Now it's become their ugly stepchild. That isn't really fair to the "collectors" they claim to listen to and react to their criticisms and kudos.

 

 

I sincerely hope that what some of you are suggesting comes to pass. That the Legends line isn't dead, it's only dormant. But you have to admit that not showing ANYTHING for 2009 is a little suspect. If there more 2-packs in the pipeline like Aurora/Northstar or something similar, wouldn't it have been beneficial to show that to us and appease us a little? but instead they show us NOTHING from next year? That doesn't raise your eyebrow at all? Even a little? Because to me, reading between the lines, it seems fairly obvious that Legends has been put on the back burner in favor of the smaller line.

 

 

so...all of the figs they showed us in 6" scale are coming this year? i thought that they showed Northstar and Aurora at the con? i agree with whoever said hasbro is lazy! i mean....c'mon! they have every excuse in the book to justify them effing up. IMO, they make way too many toys to have a materal problem, they dont bring you figures like dragonman (size ref) because they say that they dont know how to get them out. if a smll company like Mezco can get Mr.Wink onto a blister, and into stores,.....assbro should be able to do it with no problem. thats why i dont buy the whole "im a mass market company, that makes Transformers, GI joe, star wars, indy, and ML's, but we still have to charge you 15.00 for a kid quality toy. like i said, if you have a wink, get it out and look for yourself.....he's twice as big as a ML, more sturdy, and better painted....and thats from a waaaaaay smaller company!

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Grow up, please.

 

Here's a reality check for you: Marvel Toys/Toy Biz doesn't really exist anymore (per their "what could have been" panel), so there's no such company for Hasbro to give the license back to. You can spend the rest of eternity whining about "maybes" and "could have beens" or you can accept that things haven't gone the way you wanted them to and move on. Doesn't mean you have to buy their product, but christ, it's been what, 2 or 3 years now? Toy Biz isn't coming back. Deal with it.

 

NO amount of complaining is going to change who has the Marvel license anytime in the next 5 years or so (and where Hasbro's concerned, probably beyond that). Complaining about the figures themselves? That's fine. That at least has the potential to be constructive. Just screaming "Hasbro sucks" doesn't help anyone or anything.

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if a smll company like Mezco can get Mr.Wink onto a blister, and into stores,.....assbro should be able to do it with no problem. thats why i dont buy the whole "im a mass market company, that makes Transformers, GI joe, star wars, indy, and ML's, but we still have to charge you 15.00 for a kid quality toy. like i said, if you have a wink, get it out and look for yourself.....he's twice as big as a ML, more sturdy, and better painted....and thats from a waaaaaay smaller company!

It retails at $15. How harsh were most of the fans when Hasbro stuck a $15 price tag on the FFF waves? Forget what the characters were or any quality issues you have with those figures- the $15 dollar price point ALONE had the fans in fits. No one cared about why or how it could be justified.

 

I've also yet to see the Hellboy II figures in any store I go to. TRU has them on their website, so I can assume they have them in store, but Wal-Mart doesn't. Target doesn't appear to. That's one out of three major toy retailers in the US right there. This isn't because the line is exclusive, it's because Mezco, as a small toy company with a niche toyline, simply isn't ABLE to sell them to all the major chains. I'd lay bets that the ML Wal-Mart exclusives have higher production numbers and will make a bigger profit than Hellboy II.

 

This is not a slam against Mr Wink (who looks awesome), Hellboy II (which IS awesome), or Mezco (who are often very awesome), or even that you don't have a point (you do), but simply to say that you're comparing apples to oranges. Mezco specializes in low demand/high quality targeted to collectors and doesn't have a board of directors looking over their shoulders. Hasbro specializes in high demand/kid-friendly quality targeted to everyone and is the largest toymaking company in the US. Both Mezco and Hasbro make toys, but they are completely different in all other respects.

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let me get this straight, six months ago you were complaining because of the lack of toys (well, ML, anyway), and now, you complaining because theyre gonna release too many toys at once. MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

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if a smll company like Mezco can get Mr.Wink onto a blister, and into stores,.....assbro should be able to do it with no problem. thats why i dont buy the whole "im a mass market company, that makes Transformers, GI joe, star wars, indy, and ML's, but we still have to charge you 15.00 for a kid quality toy. like i said, if you have a wink, get it out and look for yourself.....he's twice as big as a ML, more sturdy, and better painted....and thats from a waaaaaay smaller company!

It retails at $15. How harsh were most of the fans when Hasbro stuck a $15 price tag on the FFF waves? Forget what the characters were or any quality issues you have with those figures- the $15 dollar price point ALONE had the fans in fits. No one cared about why or how it could be justified.

 

I've also yet to see the Hellboy II figures in any store I go to. TRU has them on their website, so I can assume they have them in store, but Wal-Mart doesn't. Target doesn't appear to. That's one out of three major toy retailers in the US right there. This isn't because the line is exclusive, it's because Mezco, as a small toy company with a niche toyline, simply isn't ABLE to sell them to all the major chains. I'd lay bets that the ML Wal-Mart exclusives have higher production numbers and will make a bigger profit than Hellboy II.

 

This is not a slam against Mr Wink (who looks awesome), Hellboy II (which IS awesome), or Mezco (who are often very awesome), or even that you don't have a point (you do), but simply to say that you're comparing apples to oranges. Mezco specializes in low demand/high quality targeted to collectors and doesn't have a board of directors looking over their shoulders. Hasbro specializes in high demand/kid-friendly quality targeted to everyone and is the largest toymaking company in the US. Both Mezco and Hasbro make toys, but they are completely different in all other respects.

 

 

most retailers didnt have hellboy toys for the same reason DCD didnt have their toys in major retail stores.....the retailers dont order them. thats why the DCSH line wasnt at wal mart for a long time(only tru & target) these companies can mass distribute their product, they sold a crap load of them on line. they just cant waste the little money they have, on making figs that the stores dont invest in. it seems that if its not from a major company, the stores wait unti they see proof that theyre going to sale.(i hope im clear...im kinda tired)

*edit*

i dont care what hasbro says, if you can put this guy on a blister, then you can do the same with a dragonman.

 

Picture412.jpg

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Dragonman, yeah I would have loved one in that size. LCBH had a good sized PITT which was very impressive for a BAF. At least ToyBiz released a puny Dragonman (maybe they knew it would be compatible someday for a Marvel Universe 3 3/4" line). :sad:

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It's also likely that Mezco, NECA, and other smaller companies allow for a smaller profit margin from their figures. If they are only expecting a 70% profit increase on a toyline, they can make a bigger figure, make less of them with better products , distribute less of them, and still be satisfied with their bottom line. Hasbro needs to use the cheapest materials bought in bulk and expects a higher 100% profit margin because they need to sustain the expectations of the shareholders.

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It's also likely that Mezco, NECA, and other smaller companies allow for a smaller profit margin from their figures. If they are only expecting a 70% profit increase on a toyline, they can make a bigger figure, make less of them with better products , distribute less of them, and still be satisfied with their bottom line. Hasbro needs to use the cheapest materials bought in bulk and expects a higher 100% profit margin because they need to sustain the expectations of the shareholders.

 

 

thats very likely....but if hasbro cant afford to keep up, then they need to pass the ball. it sickens me that these smaler companies are putting out better figs than the big boys with all of the resources. hey annihilator, i would've loved a dragonman that size. but i was just showing the size to say how stupid of a excuse to not put dragonman out again. maybe mezco should make legends(LOL)

 

Picture409.jpg

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It's also likely that Mezco, NECA, and other smaller companies allow for a smaller profit margin from their figures. If they are only expecting a 70% profit increase on a toyline, they can make a bigger figure, make less of them with better products , distribute less of them, and still be satisfied with their bottom line. Hasbro needs to use the cheapest materials bought in bulk and expects a higher 100% profit margin because they need to sustain the expectations of the shareholders.

 

 

thats very likely....but if hasbro cant afford to keep up, then they need to pass the ball. it sickens me that these smaler companies are putting out better figs than the big boys with all of the resources. hey annihilator, i would've loved a dragonman that size. but i was just showing the size to say how stupid of a excuse to not put dragonman out again. maybe mezco should make legends(LOL)

 

Picture409.jpg

 

 

Honestly, some of these quotes border on should-be illegal levels of ignorance. When Mezco starts making billions of dollars per year in toy sales, with figures being sold at every major retailer instead of just one major retailer and specialty shops, we'll talk about who's "keeping up." "Passing the ball" isn't an option, either because That isn't how business works. If Mezco were making Marvel Legends figures and having to produce them in the same numbers as Hasbro, I can promise you that the quality of figures would drop. That's also not saying anything about those precious points of articulation that some folks like to harp on so much. Mezco ain't exactly known for super-poseability. Some figures are better than others, but most aren't even up to HML standards.

 

Hasbro doesn't owe us anything. Why does everyone act like they do? They create a product to put on the shelves, which we buy if we like. That's it. Honestly, it's not as if this misplaced sense of entitlement is unique to Marvel Legends collectors, but boy is it ever more prevalent on this board than just about any other place I've seen.

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It's also likely that Mezco, NECA, and other smaller companies allow for a smaller profit margin from their figures. If they are only expecting a 70% profit increase on a toyline, they can make a bigger figure, make less of them with better products , distribute less of them, and still be satisfied with their bottom line. Hasbro needs to use the cheapest materials bought in bulk and expects a higher 100% profit margin because they need to sustain the expectations of the shareholders.

 

 

thats very likely....but if hasbro cant afford to keep up, then they need to pass the ball. it sickens me that these smaler companies are putting out better figs than the big boys with all of the resources. hey annihilator, i would've loved a dragonman that size. but i was just showing the size to say how stupid of a excuse to not put dragonman out again. maybe mezco should make legends(LOL)

 

Picture409.jpg

 

 

Honestly, some of these quotes border on should-be illegal levels of ignorance. When Mezco starts making billions of dollars per year in toy sales, with figures being sold at every major retailer instead of just one major retailer and specialty shops, we'll talk about who's "keeping up." "Passing the ball" isn't an option, either because That isn't how business works. If Mezco were making Marvel Legends figures and having to produce them in the same numbers as Hasbro, I can promise you that the quality of figures would drop. That's also not saying anything about those precious points of articulation that some folks like to harp on so much. Mezco ain't exactly known for super-poseability. Some figures are better than others, but most aren't even up to HML standards.

 

Hasbro doesn't owe us anything. Why does everyone act like they do? They create a product to put on the shelves, which we buy if we like. That's it. Honestly, it's not as if this misplaced sense of entitlement is unique to Marvel Legends collectors, but boy is it ever more prevalent on this board than just about any other place I've seen.

 

ill tell you what....im an adult. i like adult figs. hasbro seems to ALWAYS put the children 1st(theyre a kids company..i know) but i dont here alot of kids running to get MLs, actually, if collectors stop buying them all together.....then what. hasbro owes me big! they owe me a 6" line of figures, or they should let someone else make them. all i see/hear from hasbro are excuses on why a MAJOR toy company, thats been in the game for how many years now?, cant deliver us a product that a vastly smaller company(TB) was able to bring us for atleast 5 years. what has changed so much since they decided to take the license? nothing but the product. were all still here(the collectors) they made the decision to cut articulation, they picked dumb characters(filled whole waves with nobodies) tell us that things are impossible, when TB did it. it was pretty clear what we wanted. you guys are trying to justify something through bussiness ethics....quit it! why is there always somebody taking up for hasbro's B.S. im not going to argue, im buying DCUC, MEZCO, NECA and any figure thats made with care, and the collector in mind. im just tired of this shell game hasbro is playing. as for the billions of dollars a year, was that to prove your point or mine?

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ill tell you what....im an adult. i like adult figs. hasbro seems to ALWAYS put the children 1st(theyre a kids company..i know) but i dont here alot of kids running to get MLs, actually, if collectors stop buying them all together.....then what.

Well, look at the 9-month ML drought we had. Collectors sat around and complained, and Hasbro went ahead selling toys to kids and developing their next kid's line based on Marvel characters. Hasbro didn't give two bits that the collectors weren't buying Marvel Legends... and in fact, the collectors were still buying Iron Man, Hulk, and even SHS figures, so the marvel end of things was covered. The lack of MLs also 'freed up' the money of collectors to buy Indy, Transformers, GI Joe, Star Wars, etc... and many of us did. I don't think Hasbro even noticed that ML sales were non-existent, just like the product.

 

It's pretty clear that Hasbro, despite all the talk, did not want the license so they could make toys for collectors. Frankly, it's not even a matter of the collectors not collecting... Hasbro knows we're going to buy SOMETHING. They're worried about the kids that are their bread and butter.

 

I don't much like it, but that's how it is.

hasbro owes me big! they owe me a 6" line of figures,

Show me where they made you that promise.

or they should let someone else make them.

And have competition for our money? Again, they know we'll buy something, and they have most of the 'big names' in the toy aisle. They aren't going to farm out MLs to another company so that company can get our money instead.

all i see/hear from hasbro are excuses on why a MAJOR toy company, thats been in the game for how many years now?, cant deliver us a product that a vastly smaller company(TB) was able to bring us for atleast 5 years. what has changed so much since they decided to take the license? nothing but the product. were all still here(the collectors) they made the decision to cut articulation, they picked dumb characters(filled whole waves with nobodies) tell us that things are impossible, when TB did it. it was pretty clear what we wanted.

For the most part, I agree with you here.

you guys are trying to justify something through bussiness ethics....quit it!

Why? That's what it all comes down to. Mezco, to use your example, is a company founded by collectors to make toys that cater to collectors. Hasbro always was and always will be a company founded by businessmen to make toys for kids. Collectors may buy the product, but in no way are we their concern, and in no way do they feel they 'owe' us anything. It may not seem right to the collector... but neither is it wrong. It's just reality.

 

Toy Biz, it should be noted, was something of an exception in that it was created by businessmen to make toys for kids, but ended up stumbling into the collector market and walking a fine line between the two. This was largely the result of being 'the underdog' and needing our money. Hasbro isn't and doesn't. Again, they'll get our money one way or another. Maybe not yours, maybe not mine, but for every person that drops MLs, someone else will pick up the 3 3/4" line, or Indy, or Transformers, or GI Joe... then there's the ML collectors who will refuse to buy MLs anymore, but can't say no to one of the other Hasbro lines... they'll yell and scream about not having Marvel Legends while they STILL hand Hasbro money for that other line.

why is there always somebody taking up for hasbro's B.S. im not going to argue, im buying DCUC, MEZCO, NECA and any figure thats made with care, and the collector in mind. im just tired of this shell game hasbro is playing. as for the billions of dollars a year, was that to prove your point or mine?

Well, Hasbro made billions of dollars prior to ML, they'll make billions after it's gone. Tell me what difference it makes to them if they irritate the ML collectors.

 

I'd like to note that I don't like that this is the way it works... but it doesn't change the fact that this is still the way it works, and that we're not going to get something different anytime soon. I understand your frustration, and to a large extent I even agree with you, but there's really nothing that can be done about it. Not buying their product is the worst thing we can do to them, and if them not MAKING the toys didn't change anything, then us not buying them won't either.

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hey annihilator, i would've loved a dragonman that size. but i was just showing the size to say how stupid of a excuse to not put dragonman out again. maybe mezco should make legends(LOL)

 

CRUSH them puny, ugly Hydra soldiers, Mr. Wink. STOMP 'em to death !! AAAaahh!

 

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wow me me me. you guys know toybiz had its suck filled waves to right(mojo, modok,legendary riders )but i digress its true you guys do act like kids ( they didnt make guys i liked wah i bought all the toybiz figs wah) and to answer your question pooda if we all stopped buying marvel legends what would they do ? make a 3 3/4 inch line for kids.

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ill tell you what....im an adult. i like adult figs. hasbro seems to ALWAYS put the children 1st(theyre a kids company..i know) but i dont here alot of kids running to get MLs, actually, if collectors stop buying them all together.....then what.

Well, look at the 9-month ML drought we had. Collectors sat around and complained, and Hasbro went ahead selling toys to kids and developing their next kid's line based on Marvel characters. Hasbro didn't give two bits that the collectors weren't buying Marvel Legends... and in fact, the collectors were still buying Iron Man, Hulk, and even SHS figures, so the marvel end of things was covered. The lack of MLs also 'freed up' the money of collectors to buy Indy, Transformers, GI Joe, Star Wars, etc... and many of us did. I don't think Hasbro even noticed that ML sales were non-existent, just like the product.

 

It's pretty clear that Hasbro, despite all the talk, did not want the license so they could make toys for collectors. Frankly, it's not even a matter of the collectors not collecting... Hasbro knows we're going to buy SOMETHING. They're worried about the kids that are their bread and butter.

 

I don't much like it, but that's how it is.

hasbro owes me big! they owe me a 6" line of figures,

Show me where they made you that promise.

or they should let someone else make them.

And have competition for our money? Again, they know we'll buy something, and they have most of the 'big names' in the toy aisle. They aren't going to farm out MLs to another company so that company can get our money instead.

all i see/hear from hasbro are excuses on why a MAJOR toy company, thats been in the game for how many years now?, cant deliver us a product that a vastly smaller company(TB) was able to bring us for atleast 5 years. what has changed so much since they decided to take the license? nothing but the product. were all still here(the collectors) they made the decision to cut articulation, they picked dumb characters(filled whole waves with nobodies) tell us that things are impossible, when TB did it. it was pretty clear what we wanted.

For the most part, I agree with you here.

you guys are trying to justify something through bussiness ethics....quit it!

Why? That's what it all comes down to. Mezco, to use your example, is a company founded by collectors to make toys that cater to collectors. Hasbro always was and always will be a company founded by businessmen to make toys for kids. Collectors may buy the product, but in no way are we their concern, and in no way do they feel they 'owe' us anything. It may not seem right to the collector... but neither is it wrong. It's just reality.

 

Toy Biz, it should be noted, was something of an exception in that it was created by businessmen to make toys for kids, but ended up stumbling into the collector market and walking a fine line between the two. This was largely the result of being 'the underdog' and needing our money. Hasbro isn't and doesn't. Again, they'll get our money one way or another. Maybe not yours, maybe not mine, but for every person that drops MLs, someone else will pick up the 3 3/4" line, or Indy, or Transformers, or GI Joe... then there's the ML collectors who will refuse to buy MLs anymore, but can't say no to one of the other Hasbro lines... they'll yell and scream about not having Marvel Legends while they STILL hand Hasbro money for that other line.

why is there always somebody taking up for hasbro's B.S. im not going to argue, im buying DCUC, MEZCO, NECA and any figure thats made with care, and the collector in mind. im just tired of this shell game hasbro is playing. as for the billions of dollars a year, was that to prove your point or mine?

Well, Hasbro made billions of dollars prior to ML, they'll make billions after it's gone. Tell me what difference it makes to them if they irritate the ML collectors.

 

I'd like to note that I don't like that this is the way it works... but it doesn't change the fact that this is still the way it works, and that we're not going to get something different anytime soon. I understand your frustration, and to a large extent I even agree with you, but there's really nothing that can be done about it. Not buying their product is the worst thing we can do to them, and if them not MAKING the toys didn't change anything, then us not buying them won't either.

 

 

its no where on paper that they owe me...c'mon.(im just saying) well....if they didnt want the license...why take it. collectors buying "something" is whats wrong.....why settle? but it doesnt matter...ill just buy MS figs. you have to remember......alot of kids didnt EVER buy MLs......hell...they dont even buy the spidey crap out now. if they were only concerned with what kids buy, then they should of done their homework on who was buying these things! as a matter of fact.....kids arent buying the indy, star wars, or joe figs....1st hasbro says that they will raise the price(no one wanted to accept it) then they say that theyre cutting the 6" figs out....i bet if we accept MLs going for 15.00, theyll keep making them.

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i have to disagree with you pooda i work at walmart and see kids( or their parents) buy starwars,hulk, ironman,transformers,spidey all the time i even had a good talk with one kid on the star wars figures .but i agree with you i dont see kids buy indy,gi joe,batman.

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i have to disagree with you pooda i work at walmart and see kids( or their parents) buy starwars,hulk, ironman,transformers,spidey all the time i even had a good talk with one kid on the star wars figures .but i agree with you i dont see kids buy indy,gi joe,batman.

 

 

the bulk of these products are bought by collectors. and as i stated in an earlier post....hasbro ha the majority of the licenses. mattel has DK, THE BATMAN, DCUC, SPEED RACER. bandai has DBZ, POKE'MON, POWER RANGERS. JAKKS HAS WWE, and all of the rest of the top sellers are hasbro. come to our stores...that crap just sits there(spidey stuff) those hydra soldiers in the pic,...i gottem for 15.00...3 soliders for 15.00 at wal-mart. all the hulk movie stuff...50% off. hasbro just wants all of their figs to be 3 3/4.

im only putting up an arguement because this sucks! i dont collect marvel figs outside of spiderman(comic) or anything related(DD, ELEKTRA, PUNISHER) or of course....army builder troops.

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PS: Hasbro didn't get the license for "Marvel Legends" (a single figure line). They got the license for Marvel Comics, PERIOD...the brand as a whole. Thus far, it looks like they've been pretty darn successful with it, too, considering there's about 10 times as much Marvel product on shelves than there ever was during Toy Biz' days.

 

You know what else? If Marvel didn't want Hasbro to have the license...THEY WOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN IT TO THEM.

 

Collectors continually overestimate their importance to the market. While I think we're a larger segment of the toy buying population than the estimates the major companies put out, the fact of the matter is that with a couple of exceptions, we're not enough to keep a major retail line from a major manufacturer afloat. Marvel Legends skated by on a slender margin under Toy Biz...and even they started to falter towards the end, unless of course your selective memories don't let you recall all those pegwarmers from their last few waves that sat around for months until clearanced out.

 

The bare bones fact is that once Marvel Legends was produced to the level of a true "major" toy line, it was being OVER-produced. That means lost money for retailers, and lost money for retailers means they stop buying the line.

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PS: Hasbro didn't get the license for "Marvel Legends" (a single figure line). They got the license for Marvel Comics, PERIOD...the brand as a whole. Thus far, it looks like they've been pretty darn successful with it, too, considering there's about 10 times as much Marvel product on shelves than there ever was during Toy Biz' days.

 

You know what else? If Marvel didn't want Hasbro to have the license...THEY WOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN IT TO THEM.

 

Collectors continually overestimate their importance to the market. While I think we're a larger segment of the toy buying population than the estimates the major companies put out, the fact of the matter is that with a couple of exceptions, we're not enough to keep a major retail line from a major manufacturer afloat. Marvel Legends skated by on a slender margin under Toy Biz...and even they started to falter towards the end, unless of course your selective memories don't let you recall all those pegwarmers from their last few waves that sat around for months until clearanced out.

 

The bare bones fact is that once Marvel Legends was produced to the level of a true "major" toy line, it was being OVER-produced. That means lost money for retailers, and lost money for retailers means they stop buying the line.

 

 

do you know of any retailers that stop ordering the line? it didnt seem this was a problem until HML 1. the modok and mojo series moved pretty well(solwer than previous waves), and most of the people i talk to at stores say that since hasbro took over, the MLs just sit on pegs. they also added that they dont order new MLs until the old ones are gone.....theyre still there. hasbro is one of many with a marvel license....like i said...pass the ball.

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do you know of any retailers that stop ordering the line? it didnt seem this was a problem until HML 1. the modok and mojo series moved pretty well(solwer than previous waves), and most of the people i talk to at stores say that since hasbro took over, the MLs just sit on pegs. they also added that they dont order new MLs until the old ones are gone.....theyre still there. hasbro is one of many with a marvel license....like i said...pass the ball.

 

How thick-headed are you? HASBRO WON'T "PASS THE BALL." Marvel doesn't even want them to "pass the ball" and there's not a single damn company out there beyond Marvel Select (who's still making figures, BTW) that makes Marvel action figures remotely close to ML scale. Nor could they without Hasbro suing the pants off of them.

 

"Passing the ball" isn't as simple as you think it is, and it'd be an idiotic move on Hasbro's part anyhow. Why are you going to empower a potential competitor? Just so a relatively tiny group of collectors stops *****ing on the message boards?

 

You don't have to like the situation we've found ourselves in, but for god's sake try to have a shred of common sense about all this. Business doesn't stop being business just because a few people in the internet are upset. Not even for your precious Marvel Legends.

 

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