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Get Over it Marvel/Disney


monron999
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Both companies are just being very petty & tiny (to quote Thor) right now & the fans are caught in the fray. Fox refuses to work with Marvel because one could assume they think they were the first ones who took the greatest risk. Marvel did benefit from that risk and will continue to benefit from future success of Fox's Marvel films, so they'really feeling they are getting the short end of the stick by cutting Marvel even more into the agreement. Marvel, on the other hand, is at a point that they don't want to promote X-Men outside the comic realm to give Fox any momentum or any new source material. Thats why any new X-Men story archs will contain characters & parts of the Marvel Universe that Fox has no rights to. They want the movies to fail so Fox might be more open to relinquishing the rights back to Marvel.

 

I do tend to side with Fox, because Marvel knew the deal when they sold the movie rights & now they're coming off like a child who wants his toy back.

That logic doesn't make sense. During the 90s, Marvel was a company in bankruptcy, they had no way to know that more than 10 years later they would be able to not only afford to make a movie, but make it profitable and turn it into a franchise and worldwide phenomenon.

 

Also "is at a point that they don't want to promote X-Men outside the comic realm"? Please, take a good look at this comment of mine and knock some sense into your own head. The X-Men are appearing in video games, and during SDCC they had plenty of merchandise showcased, from Kotobukiya, Diamond Select, Sideshow and Gentle Giant.

I'm not sure what your problem with me is. I'm pretty much agreeing with most of what you're saying. I'm the one who pointed out that Marvel retained all rights to their comic properties. They retain the right to do with them what they want yet they choose to do nothing with it in regard to Marvel Legends & most other mass distributed merchandise as well. As far as X-Men in the comics world, I will refer you back to the comment where I said comics sector of Marvel still respects the X-Men & I also said future story archs, including all of which you named, would contain characters Fox clearly has no rights to. In doing this, Marvel is not creating any new story lines or plots Fox can use in the future. As far as games and other media, I have Contest of Champions & Future Fight. Why include mutants on one & not the other if there's no problem? The X-Men were specifically left out as were FF characters. That Marvel had no idea how successful the X-Men movie franchise would turn out ten years into the future is inconsequential. Fox was similarly unsure what the future would hold. A deal was struck. A contract was signed. Marvel was willing to mortgage the future of the franchise in order to get the movie made. That's just the nature of contract law. As far as the products being made by other companies, those are all collector aimed companies that are awarded very specific single character contracts to produce licensed products to a very specific and specialized collector audience. Those products are directed to the people who are already familiar with the characters & almost always carry a hefty price tag in order to afford those contracts. These products will never see mass production, therefore doing very little to promote those characters to the general public. So, no sir, no "sense" needs to be knocked into my head. All this information is factual, therefore sense is implicit. You sir, need some common courtesy & manners knocked into your own head as it doesn't seem you're able to have a civilized debate without resorting to insults. I'll also suggest you do some reading on simple contract law because it's clear by your ramblings that my understanding of contract law & copyright / trademark law runs far deeper than your own. I can argue you in that regard seven days a week & twice on Sunday & not have to resort to insults even once.
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Honestly, if Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant Man are any indication of where the MCU is heading, I'd rather they NOT get FF or X-Men. As a matter of fact, if it meant saving the franchises, I wouldn't mind seeing the MCU loose a couple.

Ya, I wouldn't be too upset if the X-Men movies went away either as long as the comics remain. At least Marvel could start producing the toys again under the marvel brand again without worrying about movie rights & legality issues, which is what the spirit of this entire post was about in the first place.
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Both are very important to the Marvel Universe and they are not going to jeopardize that. Just because we're not getting a steady dose of those action figures doesn't mean anything. And dude again Fox doesn't tell Marvel and Hasbro which toys we can see made as long as they don't use movie likenesses. Check your facts and accept it. FF and Xmen belong to Marvel and always will. MOVIE rights have nothing to do with it what's done with these characters outside of movies and movie merchandise. That's all! Marvel can write any story they want as well as the movie writers can. Hell they killed of Xavier and Wolverine no matter how temporary it might be. Iceman is gay. The originals are running around in the present and they have teamed up with the Guardians. They also still appear frequently in Avengers and other books fequently if not regularly. So please chill. It's not the big bad fox that's out to get anyone and make us suffer. Nor is marvel purposely hurting their own pockets. Read the new deal they made with Sony. After this current Fox trilogy is over who knows. The Xmen are still and always will be Marvel's property. Please watch the opening of your Marvel related movies again. Or just think open minded about what everyone here is saying. The Xmen have always been my favorite title from way back during the Chris Claremont and John Byrne days. That's where most of the movie material has been based anyway. no matter how loose. That was back in the early to mid 80s'. There has been hundreds more storylines since that time and even before that would translate into at least a dozen movies. So really. Quit with the conspiracy theories.

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Both companies are just being very petty & tiny (to quote Thor) right now & the fans are caught in the fray. Fox refuses to work with Marvel because one could assume they think they were the first ones who took the greatest risk. Marvel did benefit from that risk and will continue to benefit from future success of Fox's Marvel films, so they'really feeling they are getting the short end of the stick by cutting Marvel even more into the agreement. Marvel, on the other hand, is at a point that they don't want to promote X-Men outside the comic realm to give Fox any momentum or any new source material. Thats why any new X-Men story archs will contain characters & parts of the Marvel Universe that Fox has no rights to. They want the movies to fail so Fox might be more open to relinquishing the rights back to Marvel.

 

I do tend to side with Fox, because Marvel knew the deal when they sold the movie rights & now they're coming off like a child who wants his toy back.

That logic doesn't make sense. During the 90s, Marvel was a company in bankruptcy, they had no way to know that more than 10 years later they would be able to not only afford to make a movie, but make it profitable and turn it into a franchise and worldwide phenomenon.

 

Also "is at a point that they don't want to promote X-Men outside the comic realm"? Please, take a good look at this comment of mine and knock some sense into your own head. The X-Men are appearing in video games, and during SDCC they had plenty of merchandise showcased, from Kotobukiya, Diamond Select, Sideshow and Gentle Giant.

 

I'm not sure what your problem with me is. I'm pretty much agreeing with most of what you're saying. I'm the one who pointed out that Marvel retained all rights to their comic properties. They retain the right to do with them what they want yet they choose to do nothing with it in regard to Marvel Legends & most other mass distributed merchandise as well. As far as X-Men in the comics world, I will refer you back to the comment where I said comics sector of Marvel still respects the X-Men & I also said future story archs, including all of which you named, would contain characters Fox clearly has no rights to. In doing this, Marvel is not creating any new story lines or plots Fox can use in the future. As far as games and other media, I have Contest of Champions & Future Fight. Why include mutants on one & not the other if there's no problem? The X-Men were specifically left out as were FF characters. That Marvel had no idea how successful the X-Men movie franchise would turn out ten years into the future is inconsequential. Fox was similarly unsure what the future would hold. A deal was struck. A contract was signed. Marvel was willing to mortgage the future of the franchise in order to get the movie made. That's just the nature of contract law. As far as the products being made by other companies, those are all collector aimed companies that are awarded very specific single character contracts to produce licensed products to a very specific and specialized collector audience. Those products are directed to the people who are already familiar with the characters & almost always carry a hefty price tag in order to afford those contracts. These products will never see mass production, therefore doing very little to promote those characters to the general public. So, no sir, no "sense" needs to be knocked into my head. All this information is factual, therefore sense is implicit. You sir, need some common courtesy & manners knocked into your own head as it doesn't seem you're able to have a civilized debate without resorting to insults. I'll also suggest you do some reading on simple contract law because it's clear by your ramblings that my understanding of contract law & copyright / trademark law runs far deeper than your own. I can argue you in that regard seven days a week & twice on Sunday & not have to resort to insults even once.

 

If you're agreeing with me, it's really hard to see it. You're saying that "Marvel, on the other hand, is at a point that they don't want to promote X-Men outside the comic realm to give Fox any momentum or any new source material" and I'm showing you different instances in which they are being promoted outside the comic realm, with games and merchandise. Regarding most of the "mass production merchandise," it has been stated by Tom Brevoort that apparently legal issues prevent the X-Men from appearing in certain merchandise, not Marvel being a whiny baby.

 

Additionally, saying that the X-Men are appearing in storylines with characters outside their "world" so FOX couldn't use them makes no sense. How many films use extremely-recent comics as a source? None. It's also worth mentioning that the X-Men have shared storylines with other characters like the Avengers, Spider-Man or X-Men since their beginning.

 

And I don't know why are you being sensitive about it, telling somebody to knock sense into their head is not an insult. I'm sorry if you took it that way, but it's not my fault if you think I'm insulting you. However, it seems that while you are accusing me of insulting you, while you're not exactly doing the opposite...

 

So, please, don't recommend people to be civilized and have manners if you can't do it yourself. You're doing, like, the opposite of "leading by example."

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I watched SP's interview with the Hasbro team and the one "sub-section" to the X & FF question I wished he would have asked...

Ok, Hasbro has the rights to do X-Men & FF, BUT do they have the rights to the likenesses of the actors who portray the characters?

I really want a ML version of DOFP Wolverine(battle suit) or DOFP Fassbender Magneto to go with my RDJ Iron Man or Chris Evans Cap. That's the real question. Why aren't we getting movie likenesses of these characters in the ML line? And why aren't we getting "movie" specific 3.75 lines anymore? I admit I wasn't thrilled with the 5 POA AOE figures AT FIRST but after purchasing all of them and cracking them open I really enjoy them! I'd love to get movie themed 3.75 waves again even if they are all 5 POA. But I want those lines to be specific to the films with movie accurate portraits and costuming.

So again the real question can Hasbro use Fox "actors" likenesses for ML themed figures or 3.75 movie themed waves?

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I watched SP's interview with the Hasbro team and the one "sub-section" to the X & FF question I wished he would have asked...

Ok, Hasbro has the rights to do X-Men & FF, BUT do they have the rights to the likenesses of the actors who portray the characters?

I really want a ML version of DOFP Wolverine(battle suit) or DOFP Fassbender Magneto to go with my RDJ Iron Man or Chris Evans Cap. That's the real question. Why aren't we getting movie likenesses of these characters in the ML line? And why aren't we getting "movie" specific 3.75 lines anymore? I admit I wasn't thrilled with the 5 POA AOE figures AT FIRST but after purchasing all of them and cracking them open I really enjoy them! I'd love to get movie themed 3.75 waves again even if they are all 5 POA. But I want those lines to be specific to the films with movie accurate portraits and costuming.

So again the real question can Hasbro use Fox "actors" likenesses for ML themed figures or 3.75 movie themed waves?

 

The answer to that is easy. The minute they make a movie likeness, they have to give Fox money. Fox gets a portion of any movie related merchandise. So Hasbro might be able to obtain it, but they won't. Because Disney/Marvel does not want them to.

 

That's why the only figures that came out for DOFP were strictly comic based at TRU exclusive. Marvel is on record saying something to the effect of preferring to sell something and get 100% of the profit rather than selling something and getting only half. And that's why we're not going to see any movie figures. Marvel would much rather cash in on Civil War where they can sell Cap, Iron Man, new Spidey, Black Panther and the avengers and get 100% of the profit. Same reason we will see Dr. Strange get merchandise but nothing for Deadpool or Gambit. This is different from when XMO Wolverine came out and we were just getting to Iron Man 2, Thor and Captain America. Now these things are in competition. And if X-Men movie figures sell twice as well as Civil War, then Marvel is losing a lot of money. In their logic then, it is better not to spend that money on helping Fox at the expense of hurting their films.

 

That said, I fully expect a Legends themed wave of X-Men comic characters next summer with a BAF Apocalypse. Remember if it's the comic characters, Marvel gets 100% and Fox gets nothing.

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Well it may not be an "embargo" but something is going on. With the relaunch of the Marvel Universe in comics, there is no Fantastic Four book. They have the Thing on an Avengers team and the Human Torch is kickin'' it with Medusa in the Inhumans. Marvel isn't necessarily putting a figurative freeze on those two franchises, but they are effectively distancing themselves from them. And all because of cinematic issues. funny how that has now taken precedence over the comics (from which all of this sprung).

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That's what I've been trying to get across this entire time, but some people accuse me of being overly critical. Whether it's an all out feud or not, there is definitely something going on. I see a lot of Marvel media & propaganda that just seem to purposely leave X-Men & FF franchises out. Whether it be games, toys or other. My kid bought a poster of what looked to be the entire Marvel Universe, but on closer examination there were neither of them in it whatsoever. It was an image that's pretty widespread on the net so out of curiosity I looked it up & sure enough it had been altered.

 

As its been said several times in this topic, Marvel retains all rights to those properties so some of the reasons they give as to why the product are so scarce just don't make sense. The Onslaught figure, for instance. They site legal issues for not including a Magneto head, but how could that be? If it isn't molded in the likeness of the movie actor or directly sourced from a movie, Fox should have no recourse. It comes directly out of the comics. Now, if they had stated that it was going to be an Avengers or Captain America wave and the Magneto head just wouldn't fit the theme, that would be understandable, but if that was the case, why not just say so?

 

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic about the whole thing, but I feel like ML has so much subject matter they can use from X-Men you would think they would have done it by now. Havok, Psylocke, Rogue, Dazzler. All could be done with the new molds using just paint & small molded parts. Hasbro seems to have sided with marvel & thats okay as it seems to be the more lucrative choice but you would think Marvel would start pushing the franchise more in defiance of Fox. Letting them know this is still their property & they will do what they want with it. There's no reason Hasbro couldn't release a comic based wave around the time of the movie & simply not include movie based figures. By commercial standards they should be equals. They both purchased rights to use the marvel properties for profitability. Fox makes movies, Hasbro makes toys. They don't necessarily have to entertwine or directly profit from each others work.

 

In today's society anyone can sue for anything, but either one of the companies trying to claim that the other company unfairly profited of the success of the others product is a hard case to prove. Besides, whose to say which company has more of a right to profit off a license that they both paid to use?

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During ECCC, it was revealed there would be a Fantastic Four book after Secret Wars. Marvel also announced there would be 66 series in total. and they have revealed so far only 49 books. And the Fantastic Four are not the only characters missing (so far) from All-New, All-Different Marvel. Black Widow still hasn't had a series announced. Hopefully, one of these 17 series left will be a Fantastic Four series.

 

Regarding the Red Onslaught BaF, according to Marvelous News (here), Hasbro mentioned they can't (not "don't want to") use a Magneto-like alternate head because of legal reasons: the wave is being used to promote a Marvel Studios feature, it will have a "Captain America: Civil War" logo on the packages.

 

I think one of the big reasons for the lack of X-Men figures is because most recently, almost every Marvel Legends wave has some movie-themed figure. The Thanos series featured three MCU figures, the Hulkbuster series featured another two, the Ultron Prime series featured another two. And what are the other waves without movie figures? Spider-Man-themed, so the X-Men have no place in there. If we take the case of the Onslaught alternate head, or lack thereof, this same principle applies with 3 out of the 6 waves from this year. And there have been 2 Spider-Man-themed waves.

 

In conclusion, X-Men-related figures could only have appeared in only one ML wave this entire year, the All-Father series. And I doubt the X-Men not appearing in one out of one waves they could have been in is reason enough to say the X-Men are being pushed away.

 

I hope.

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In conclusion, X-Men-related figures could only have appeared in only one ML wave this entire year, the All-Father series. And I doubt the X-Men not appearing in one out of one waves they could have been in is reason enough to say the X-Men are being pushed away.

 

 

except 1. that was a wave to promote the movie and 2. alot of X-men are now Avengers.

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And 3. The Xmen continue to have their own related books and as you said are apart of the Avengers as well. Storm is apart of the Thor Corps. in the current event that's going on. But if you're not getting enough of your X/FF fix complain to Marvel. Fox has had a partnership with Marvel Entertainment since 1994. How many figures of Xmen and FF characters have been since. Tons! Each have had separate Their own comic based ML classic lines, Hasbro waves based on the comic versions of these characters. Right now the big $ are coming from The Avengers corner and what kids who don't know or read comics recognize. I've had to explain to a few people about why characters like Hawkeye's figure has a mask or Thor's costume doesn't look like the movie. I've had to explain when did Storm get a Mohawk and old man Magneto start taking steroids. My mother in law loves to interrogate me on the Flash (which I don't read but like her love the show) & all comic based movies and tv shows. She's never read any comics but loves watching the heroes on the big or small screen. So I have to keep a bottle of water beside me when she comes over and watches one. Lol. My teenage stepdaughter and stepson are getting up to speed as well. Just not collectors like myself.

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I think Damprime, with you explaining to people differences between movie and comic versions hits the nail on the head. People are watching the movies. They're just not reading the books. Moreover, they weren't fans to begin with. They became such only AFTER viewing. Disney, Marvel and to a degree, Hasbro all recognize this. Hell, Marvel themselves no longer refer to themselves as a comic company. The classify themselves as an "entertainment company". This means comics (though the originators of all this) is somewhere down the list of priority. They can't bank on the Fantastic Four or X-Men franchises like they want to (that is to say they could get something, but I suspect they want the whole kit and kaboodle) so they've been downgraded and relegated. It's something wee, as collectors (and fans of the books) will just have to accept, get used to and ride out until something changes.

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I think Damprime, with you explaining to people differences between movie and comic versions hits the nail on the head. People are watching the movies. They're just not reading the books. Moreover, they weren't fans to begin with. They became such only AFTER viewing. Disney, Marvel and to a degree, Hasbro all recognize this. Hell, Marvel themselves no longer refer to themselves as a comic company. The classify themselves as an "entertainment company". This means comics (though the originators of all this) is somewhere down the list of priority. They can't bank on the Fantastic Four or X-Men franchises like they want to (that is to say they could get something, but I suspect they want the whole kit and kaboodle) so they've been downgraded and relegated. It's something wee, as collectors (and fans of the books) will just have to accept, get used to and ride out until something changes.

That's the right track. When the first X movies were out there were a ton of X books, mini series and everything. Wolverine had like 3 or 4 of his own and there were only 2 Avengers titles. Both of which Wolverine appeared in. Don't worry their still a big money maker. It's just now is the time to get more exposure for the rest of the vast MU that people don't know and other fans want to see. Who would've thought the GOTG and Ant Man would have hit movies! Let alone movies period. Now an Inhumans movie! WTF? The partnership with Netflix is helping get the lower tier characters out now too. Give them a chance and be patient.

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In conclusion, X-Men-related figures could only have appeared in only one ML wave this entire year, the All-Father series. And I doubt the X-Men not appearing in one out of one waves they could have been in is reason enough to say the X-Men are being pushed away.

 

 

except 1. that was a wave to promote the movie and 2. alot of X-men are now Avengers.

 

A few X-Men have been Avengers, but that doesn't make them Avengers characters the same way Iron Man, Thor or Captain Ameica are. If certain characters were "XXXXX characters" just for barely appearing in a team or being minimally related to a character, the whole line of what characters are owned by whom would be really blurry. Black Panther has been a member of the Fantastic Four, Mr. Fantastic has been an Avenger, Mystique was a Ms. Marvel villain, and so on...

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In conclusion, X-Men-related figures could only have appeared in only one ML wave this entire year, the All-Father series. And I doubt the X-Men not appearing in one out of one waves they could have been in is reason enough to say the X-Men are being pushed away.

 

except 1. that was a wave to promote the movie and 2. alot of X-men are now Avengers.

A few X-Men have been Avengers, but that doesn't make them Avengers characters the same way Iron Man, Thor or Captain Ameica are. If certain characters were "XXXXX characters" just for barely appearing in a team or being minimally related to a character, the whole line of what characters are owned by whom would be really blurry. Black Panther has been a member of the Fantastic Four, Mr. Fantastic has been an Avenger, Mystique was a Ms. Marvel villain, and so on...

More than a few, watching the Rogue cut of DoFP last night there are 7 X-men in it that are also Avengers.

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In my opinion it is pretty obvious they at least don't want to market X-Men or FF in the Marvel Legends line. They did the X-Men wave as an exclusive for TRU which was cool but still not enough. Why not give us at least one X-Men themed like a year? As long as it is comic aesthetic they could. Or at the very least throw in a mutant here or there. I am very happy that we are getting a Namor. Is the last Namor Legends figure somewhat rare? I still have him in the box and I am thinking I might keep him there since we are getting a better figure sometime next year.

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In conclusion, X-Men-related figures could only have appeared in only one ML wave this entire year, the All-Father series. And I doubt the X-Men not appearing in one out of one waves they could have been in is reason enough to say the X-Men are being pushed away.

 

except 1. that was a wave to promote the movie and 2. alot of X-men are now Avengers.

A few X-Men have been Avengers, but that doesn't make them Avengers characters the same way Iron Man, Thor or Captain Ameica are. If certain characters were "XXXXX characters" just for barely appearing in a team or being minimally related to a character, the whole line of what characters are owned by whom would be really blurry. Black Panther has been a member of the Fantastic Four, Mr. Fantastic has been an Avenger, Mystique was a Ms. Marvel villain, and so on...

More than a few, watching the Rogue cut of DoFP last night there are 7 X-men in it that are also Avengers.

 

 

Well, 7 is not really "a lot." Specially considering how many X-Men and how many Avengers there are, and for how long those characters have been Avengers. For example, Storm was an Avenger for only six issues.

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In my opinion it is pretty obvious they at least don't want to market X-Men or FF in the Marvel Legends line. They did the X-Men wave as an exclusive for TRU which was cool but still not enough. Why not give us at least one X-Men themed like a year? As long as it is comic aesthetic they could. Or at the very least throw in a mutant here or there. I am very happy that we are getting a Namor. Is the last Namor Legends figure somewhat rare? I still have him in the box and I am thinking I might keep him there since we are getting a better figure sometime next year.

 

no it was really just an awful figure. That being said the reason / excuse they could make for Namor is that he was Cap's ally in the Invaders, was brought back in F4, was made a Avengers and a X-man, and has fought almost every superhero and major super villians. He is in too many pot to settles for one. I just hope he is for the Cap wave 2 along with Jim Hammond Human torch.

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In conclusion, X-Men-related figures could only have appeared in only one ML wave this entire year, the All-Father series. And I doubt the X-Men not appearing in one out of one waves they could have been in is reason enough to say the X-Men are being pushed away.

 

except 1. that was a wave to promote the movie and 2. alot of X-men are now Avengers.

A few X-Men have been Avengers, but that doesn't make them Avengers characters the same way Iron Man, Thor or Captain Ameica are. If certain characters were "XXXXX characters" just for barely appearing in a team or being minimally related to a character, the whole line of what characters are owned by whom would be really blurry. Black Panther has been a member of the Fantastic Four, Mr. Fantastic has been an Avenger, Mystique was a Ms. Marvel villain, and so on...

More than a few, watching the Rogue cut of DoFP last night there are 7 X-men in it that are also Avengers.

Well, 7 is not really "a lot." Specially considering how many X-Men and how many Avengers there are, and for how long those characters have been Avengers. For example, Storm was an Avenger for only six issues.

7 in the movie, not total.

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In conclusion, X-Men-related figures could only have appeared in only one ML wave this entire year, the All-Father series. And I doubt the X-Men not appearing in one out of one waves they could have been in is reason enough to say the X-Men are being pushed away.

 

except 1. that was a wave to promote the movie and 2. alot of X-men are now Avengers.

A few X-Men have been Avengers, but that doesn't make them Avengers characters the same way Iron Man, Thor or Captain Ameica are. If certain characters were "XXXXX characters" just for barely appearing in a team or being minimally related to a character, the whole line of what characters are owned by whom would be really blurry. Black Panther has been a member of the Fantastic Four, Mr. Fantastic has been an Avenger, Mystique was a Ms. Marvel villain, and so on...

More than a few, watching the Rogue cut of DoFP last night there are 7 X-men in it that are also Avengers.

Well, 7 is not really "a lot." Specially considering how many X-Men and how many Avengers there are, and for how long those characters have been Avengers. For example, Storm was an Avenger for only six issues.

7 in the movie, not total.

 

 

Aren't there 7 in total, as well? Beast, Storm, Cannonball, Wolverine, Sunspot, Firestar, and Rogue? Which mutants from DoFP have been Avengers? Considering Cannonball and Firestar weren't on it, which other X-Men are you referring to?

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