New Falcon And The Winter Soldier And Hawkeye Concept Art Including A USAgent First Look

[Gigantor]

8 hours ago, tarot said:

probably the government will force Sam to give up the sheild to Walker, Walker becomes too violent or overly patriotic and Sam has to take him down and then becomes the new cap. 

"Overly patriotic"? Wow. Didn't know that was a crime.

[tarot]

8 minutes ago, Gigantor said:

"Overly patriotic"? Wow. Didn't know that was a crime.

it is when you try and force people to follow your view. there being patriotic, where people love and respect their country and everybody in it, and overly patriotic, where is people are not from there country, don't have the same view or religion or question the government lead led to people being persecuted against. most recent view is what is happening in Hong Kong. 

[Gigantor]

Then you chose the wrong wording. Trying to force people to follow your view as in 'it's my way or the highway" leans more towards communist/socialist & US Agent is far from that imo. He just loves his country to the point that anyone trying to mess with it will incur his full wrath. If anything, Bucky rates to be the next Cap being as he is a far superior hand to hand combatant & stronger, faster , quicker than Sam Wilson. 

[Atlantis]

8 hours ago, Atlantis said:

From the MCU, Cap got Howard to make him another shield and when he returns to the current timeline, he gives it to Sam...not sure govt has a true claim on that shield in order to take it from him. But that was the comic storyline, and I don't expect it to follow the new MCU timeline. In any case I really like this concept art for Falcon's outfit. I'd love it to be as close to the comic as possible.

I subscribed to Disney+ and was able to log on; but every show was unable to be seen so maybe I was too early.

*^%$#()@! still cant get on. Says "protected content license error". Maybe they'll get it fixed end of day. Bah!

[Emnems80]

Really don't want to pay for another streaming service (in this case Disney +) but images like these make it hard to say no.

[Benn]

3 hours ago, Gigantor said:

Trying to force people to follow your view as in 'it's my way or the highway" leans more towards communist/socialist & US Agent is far from that imo.

The word you're looking for is 'authoritarian'. There have certainly been plenty of authoritarian socialists and communists throughout history, but it's not intrinsic and certainly not exclusive to those economic frameworks. There have also been plenty of authoritarian nationalists who are all about good, old-fashioned capitalism, which frankly seems like a really natural fit for USAgent.

[Atlantis]

13 hours ago, leokearon said:

What's to stop people making their own Shield. Happens in the comics.

True, but it depends on what kind of shield a body wants. Captain America's shield was a unique alloy blend, virtually indestructible and had inertial absorbing properties that haven't been (exactly) duplicated; it was basically created by accident and the closest they ever got to copying it wound up as Adamantium. Its also expensive as hell because only a few agencies could ever get the materials to make it.

In the comics, when Cap got "fired" in the 80s the shield went to Walker, and Cap got a new one made by Stark (this was out of Adamantium) and later still, he got one from the Black Panther made of Vibranium. Of course he eventually got his shield back and Walker got a number of variants over the years. 

So yes the technology has improved to where someone could get close to the original shield, but you still have the problem of who can make it and how one can afford it.  Fortunately all these people live in a world of high tech ultra rich billionaires, not to mention evil organizations, so if they want one bad enough....

[monron999]

12 hours ago, tarot said:

it is when you try and force people to follow your view. there being patriotic, where people love and respect their country and everybody in it, and overly patriotic, where is people are not from there country, don't have the same view or religion or question the government lead led to people being persecuted against. most recent view is what is happening in Hong Kong. 

 

10 hours ago, mako said:

You have a real messed up definition of patriotic. Good thing you live in a country that lets you express your opinion.

Might wanna think on that.

I'll 2nd that.

Ehrrrr.....uuuuhm. Who exactly is being overly patriotic in that situation? Is it the oppressive communist Chinese government who are reneging on a deal that would have kept the territory of Hong Kong operating as a democracy through ratified negotiations or is it the free people of Hong Kong, deemed "anti-government rioters" by the state run media, who are protesting against China moving in on them with it's military might to occupy and overtake them with communism?

If it's the people of Hong Kong, then count me as one of the Overly Patriotic who would do the same in the face of losing my freedom and everything I hold dear.

That's as political as I'm gonna get cuz I'm sure the usual Trolls are waiting with baited breath to hit me with all their canned, pre-programmed, cut and paste rhetoric to try to get me all riled up so they can report me as an enemy of the state.

[tarot]

16 minutes ago, monron999 said:

 

I'll 2nd that.

Ehrrrr.....uuuuhm. Who exactly is being overly patriotic in that situation? Is it the oppressive communist Chinese government who are reneging on a deal that would have kept the territory of Hong Kong operating as a democracy through ratified negotiations or is it the free people of Hong Kong, deemed "anti-government rioters" by the state run media, who are protesting against China moving in on them with it's military might to occupy and overtake them with communism?

If it's the people of Hong Kong, then count me as one of the Overly Patriotic who would do the same in the face of losing my freedom and everything I hold dear.

That's as political as I'm gonna get cuz I'm sure the usual Trolls are waiting with baited breath to hit me with all their canned, pre-programmed, cut and paste rhetoric to try to get me all riled up so they can report me as an enemy of the state.

I used the wrong praise but the people im talking about are the chinese army. Since thr hong kong people dont follow their government rule they are using violent against them.

[bashpics99]

Geez, use the inartful expression of "overly patriotic" and everybody gets the vapors, it seems.  Never heard the term "jingoistic", I guess, or of having a "love it or leave it", "my country right or wrong" attitude.   And i  kinda thought that was USAgent's whole shtick,  he starts off trying to do the right thing without being squeamish about getting his hands dirty and then eventually goes completely overboard and has to rethink his approach.  I mean Gruenwald's conception of him was as "a patriotic villain" who was Steve Roger's opposite in a number of ways. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if USAgent is presented as a foil for Sam & Bucky, as Tarot suggested.

[monron999]

1 hour ago, bashpics99 said:

Geez, use the inartful expression of "overly patriotic" and everybody gets the vapors, it seems.  Never heard the term "jingoistic", I guess, or of having a "love it or leave it", "my country right or wrong" attitude.   And i  kinda thought that was USAgent's whole shtick,  he starts off trying to do the right thing without being squeamish about getting his hands dirty and then eventually goes completely overboard and has to rethink his approach.  I mean Gruenwald's conception of him was as "a patriotic villain" who was Steve Roger's opposite in a number of ways. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if USAgent is presented as a foil for Sam & Bucky, as Tarot suggested.

 

37 minutes ago, mako said:

I don't think there was ever any doubt Walker will be an antagonist on the show. From the beginning he's always been portrayed as the liberal media's interpretation of a right-wing conservative: at best, a ham-fisted buffoon, at worst, a violent, jingoistic sociopath. Whether watching 40 year-old MASH reruns or reading the latest Marvel SJW-fest, you can attribute many qualities to liberal media . . . originality is not one of them.

There was a lot of insinuation about Walker from the start. If you'll remember, his original code name was Super Patriot, which was a much used buzz word of the media of the time which is pretty synonymous with the way they are using Ultra Patriotic right now so there is a correlation there. They  pretty much all but called him a far right white supremacist, who faked acts of terror to justify operating under his own brand of justice. It was a good story and I wouldn't be a bit surprised it Marvel went that way with the story, but the inclusion of Baron Zemo into the series leads me to believe he will actually be a government agent turned rogue rather than the original story. It's almost certain that the group of super soldiers Zemo killed in Civil War was supposed to represent Walker and the other BUC's that went through the Power Broker's treatment, but now that they've mussed up his origin story I think they're gonna go the way of Walker being his direct replacement.

[tarot]

Anyhow....... moving away from wrong phrasing and #$##, I think the government will cut a deal with Zemo, since he knows so much about the Winter Soldier program. Because of this, he will be in charge of "creating" a new Soldier for the government, that being Winter Soldier. I can only hope this lead to him setting up the T-Bolts as that is the main reason I think Marvel decided he should be one of the only surviving villains of the franchise.

[monron999]

19 minutes ago, tarot said:

Anyhow....... moving away from wrong phrasing and #$##, I think the government will cut a deal with Zemo, since he knows so much about the Winter Soldier program. Because of this, he will be in charge of "creating" a new Soldier for the government, that being Winter Soldier. I can only hope this lead to him setting up the T-Bolts as that is the main reason I think Marvel decided he should be one of the only surviving villains of the franchise.

That sounds legit, but what about this. What if they recovered the thumb drive that Cap and Natasha downloaded from Zola and attempt to revive the program creating Walker to be Rogers' replacement that Zemo manages to corrupt. I have trouble thinking the US government would trust Zemo to run that program in some sort of Operation Paperclip type scenario. Maybe that's just me. Then again, Thunderbolt Ross has shown that he would go through any means to push his overall agenda. 

[Emnems80]

4 hours ago, mako said:

Does the fact a lot of people are signing up and not being able to access anything help?

That sucks. My bigger peeve is more with Verizon. I would have it free for a year if they had their 5g or Fios available in my area, but they don't. I don't need unlimited on my phone plan, just my home internet (and be able to get rid of Comcast at the same time!).

[Emnems80]

6 hours ago, Atlantis said:

True, but it depends on what kind of shield a body wants. Captain America's shield was a unique alloy blend, virtually indestructible and had inertial absorbing properties that haven't been (exactly) duplicated; it was basically created by accident and the closest they ever got to copying it wound up as Adamantium. Its also expensive as hell because only a few agencies could ever get the materials to make it.

In the comics, when Cap got "fired" in the 80s the shield went to Walker, and Cap got a new one made by Stark (this was out of Adamantium) and later still, he got one from the Black Panther made of Vibranium. Of course he eventually got his shield back and Walker got a number of variants over the years. 

So yes the technology has improved to where someone could get close to the original shield, but you still have the problem of who can make it and how one can afford it.  Fortunately all these people live in a world of high tech ultra rich billionaires, not to mention evil organizations, so if they want one bad enough....

I need to watch endgame again but did Cap take his shield with him on his last mission? If he left his shield it could have been the shield from the timeline where he spent his life with Peggy that he gave to Falcon. Would make a possibility of having a 2nd shield available. Of course if Cap took the shield on the last mission it's a mute point.

[leokearon]

2 hours ago, mako said:

Doesn't really seem likely. As he proved rather dramatically, Zemo had absolutely no interest in the Winter Soldier program other than as a tool to bring down the Avengers. As a matter of fact, he murdered all the other Winter Soldiers JUST to keep them out of play. Seems unlikely he'd get involved with recreating the very thing he dedicated his life to destroying.

Maybe after killing their king, Wakanda wants a piece of Zemo. He escapes while being transported to them, then the government sends their brand spanking new Captain America (Walker) to bring him back. Walker, not yet a d!(k, ends up being captured and brainwashed into becoming Zemo's meat puppet. This could even plant the seeds of a Thunderbolts storyline as Zemo would now be looking to use Walker as the centerpiece of his "anti-Avengers."

Sam and Bucky go after them, Sam becomes the new Cap. Credits role.

That reminds me, what is Zemo's current status after BP stopped him, I assumed he would be in Wakanda jail for killing their king, or in a international jail for masterminding the attack

[JayC]

23 hours ago, tarot said:

Well you cant have many mask like that and not look similar. Beside i think sin eaters mask is green

U need the gold headpiece to go with the mask and then it will look more like zemo and less like a guy wearing a purple ski mask.

[JayC]

Walker has gone through many changes over the years. He started out as a wrestler for the super human wrestling league or whatever it was called and then he became Super Patriot with the idea of staging crimes where he would swoop in and stop them to try and outshine Rogers who he thought had become a washed up has been. Then the Government decided because they could no longer control rogers they would stripe him of the name Captain America. They took the outfit and the shield which they owned and gave it to Walker because they felt they could control him. Walker was very patriotic but he also had a really bad temper and had no problems beating the crap out of a perp. In the comics Rogers did not have super strength but Walker did. Also in the comics Cap's shield was one of a kind made out of a mixture of Adamantium and Vibranium. In the movies the shield isn't really one of a kind just rare, nor as indestructible because its only made of Vibranium. If you have access to Vibranium then you can make a duplicate shield.

In the comics Walker is given the Captain America persona and shield while Rogers goes to Stark and gets a very similar designed outfit only now with black and red colors and a new shield which is only made of vibranium, no adamantium. He then starts going by the name of just "The Captain". Meanwhile Walker who goes on missions for the government with his partner the new Bucky, a black dude who also stemmed from that wrestling federation. Bucky is much more stable and is able to keep Walker in somewhat check until they go up against a racists hate group called the watchdogs, who discovers who Captain America really is and end up killing a family member of Walkers. His sister I think. That then sends Walker over the edge where he ends up killing members of the Watch Dogs. After that and seeing Walker has become unhinged, the government starts to rethink their decision to give Walker the Captain America name.

Meanwhile Rogers ends up butting heads with Stark who has gone a bit off the rails himself with his obsession of reclaiming from anyone who has been using his technology (good guy or bad). Stark discovers the armor suits worn by the Guardsman who guard the maximum super villain prison at time known as the Vault has his technology in it so he goes and nullifies their suits which of course leaves the prison vulnerable. A prison break happens as a result of Stark's actions which The Captain has to stop. During this story The Captain and Iron Man face off and if I remember correctly Stark temporary paralyzes Rogers and takes off with the new shield he had given him.

Then soon after that, the Inferno X-Men crossover happens. The Avengers had recently disbanded thanks to the exploits of Dr. Druid and The Captain along with Reed and Sue storm of the Fantastic Four along with Gilgamesh and Thor I think form a temporary new Avengers team to handle the overflow of problems from the Inferno storyline.

By this point Walker has basically gone rogue and Rogers sets out to stop him, the two go at it and eventually it is discovered that the Red Skull who at this point was thought dead was really pulling all the strings that had caused Rogers to be striped of the Captain America name and given to Walker. Redskull had discovered away to clone Rogers body and place his consciousness into it giving him a new young vital body. He then assumed the identity of a Congressman where he was able to put his evil plans in motion. By the time Rogers and Walker discover it was Red Skull who was behind everything that had happened to them, it was seemingly to late. After Walker is incapacitated, Skull and Rogers fight it out and Skull is about to blow red smoke from his cigarette that would disfigure Rogers face when Walker manages to muster up enough strength to throw the Captain America shield at Skull which causes Skull to bite down on his own cigarette which in turn cause the red smoke meant for Rogers to blow back on him disfiguring his own perfect face so that it looks like an actual Red Skull. Up until this point the Red Skull was actually just a mask.  Red Skull escapes to plot another day.

Walker having saved Rogers life and both realizing they had been played by Skull all this time come to a temporary truce and Walker who realizes Rogers is a true hero gives him back the Captain America persona. The government also agrees to allow Rogers to return as Cap being they had allowed Skull to infiltrate their ranks.

Walker gets some therapy, temperately changes his name to Jack Daniels is given The Captain outfit and a vibranium shield of his own and renamed USAgent. Shortly after that the Government forces the West Coast Avengers to take him on as a team member so he can watch over them and where he ends up butting heads often with the then team leader Hawkeye.

West Coast Avengers then come to an end, Walker throws his uniform and shield out into the ocean only later to get a totally revamped outfit and energy shield so he can join the reformed West Coast Avengers team created by Tony Stark now named Force Works. Force Works is short lived though so Walker disappears for awhile until Marvel decided to give him a limited series where he has magically returned to his original The Captain outfit and now has a bird shaped shield and is watching over a prison.

He then turns up again in the short-lived Alpha Flight reboot with former West Coast Avengers/Force Works teammate Spider-Woman (the second one).

He then once again turns up in Thunderbolts where he is now the new warden of The Raft. There he is paralyzed by Nuke and left to be in a wheelchair.

His legs are returned to him in a Dark Avengers story where he and others are transported to an alternate reality for a while. The last time he was seen in the comics I believe was the Secret Empire storyline which I didnt read.

I probably missed a few other appearances here or there but that gives you the general gist of it.

Anyway I don't know if they will say the Government owns the shield in the show, but they def could claim they own the name and costume and it wouldnt be two difficult for the Government to replicate a vibranium shield. Though technically they could say Howard Stark at the time of making the original shield was working for the Government and hence it in fact does belong to them and being Tony Stark is no longer alive there would be no one else to claim ownership of it.

Keep in mind Wilson and Barnes may still be considered fugitives of the federal government after the events of Civil War and may be looking for them to answer for their crimes or at the very least not keen on the idea of either of them being the next Captain America.

[Atlantis]

1 hour ago, mako said:

Good question. The last we see of him, to my knowledge, was in a cell like Bucky's as Everett Ross gloated at the end of Civil War.

Yeah you know they should have executed his @$$ and stuck his head on a pike...Wakanda don't play.

Of course that would mean he wouldn't be around for the sequels or the upcoming show...

[JayC]

Oh and someone I know for fact is in the know told me minor modifications have been made to the USAgent outfit from what is shown in this concept art. They didn't say exactly what those modifications where but they told me that when I said to them I hoped the final costume would be black and not blue, so hopefully that is the modification that was made to the suit.

[leokearon]

26 minutes ago, JayC said:

Oh and someone I know for fact is in the know told me minor modifications have been made to the USAgent outfit from what is shown in this concept art. They didn't say exactly what those modifications where but they told me that when I said to them I hoped the final costume would be black and not blue, so hopefully that is the modification that was made to the suit.

I won't mind it starting off blue and then going black

[JayC]

Just now, leokearon said:

I won't mind it starting off blue and then going black

I wouldnt either as long as the final version is black.

[Gigantor]

In the comics, the watchdogs killed Walkers parent's & he went ballistic & killed  a buncha the watchdogs. His older brother died in  Nam. Hasbro needs to do a classic US Agent on a Herc buck ASAP! John Walker is 6'4 270lbs

[tarot]

18 minutes ago, Gigantor said:

In the comics, the watchdogs killed Walkers parent's & he went ballistic & killed  a buncha the watchdogs. His older brother died in  Nam. Hasbro needs to do a classic US Agent on a Herc buck ASAP! John Walker is 6'4 270lbs

Herc is way too big for Walker. Cap wolf or Spider-uk would be better.

[monron999]

7 hours ago, leokearon said:

That reminds me, what is Zemo's current status after BP stopped him, I assumed he would be in Wakanda jail for killing their king, or in a international jail for masterminding the attack

 

5 hours ago, mako said:

Good question. The last we see of him, to my knowledge, was in a cell like Bucky's as Everett Ross gloated at the end of Civil War.

I was just assuming he was sent to the raft, but as he doesn't actually have any powers I would assume he's in a regular prison, which would make it a lot easier for him to arrange an escape.