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Hasbro Fan-First Tuesday Marvel Legends Live-Stream Event - SDCC Exclsuives and X-Men Store Exclusives


JayC

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2 hours ago, Gigantor said:

How is Warpath "too short" ? Colossus when "armored" up is 7'5, so Warpath should be a tad shorter than Peter. Buck Hasbro picked for T-Bird is perfect.

Guess I haven't looked at the comparison between this Warpath and the Colossus from the two pack. Colossus is currently in storage. You and @Benn have both pointed out that he is only slightly shorter than Colossus so I'll take your words for it. I think what was throwing me off was the comparison between this Warpath and the Classic Cable. As I remember, I think they were almost the same height which lead me to believe he is much smaller than he probably is. I will still maintain that he does seem quite small compared to artists' portrayals of him back when he was purely the team's muscle rather than the "All-Around Athlete Killer" that he is today. Then again, we are talking about Liefeld's art, which never followed scale, or anatomy, or reality in any way. Capullo did scale him down a bit after the Judas Crew skipped out to Image.

Damn, we need a Siryn and Feral figure, ASAP! I'll even take a Rictor too, and an extra set of legs for Cannonball.

X-Force.jpg

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22 minutes ago, memocromatico said:

Wow, this is bull crap. I understand items being desired, but honestly... scalpers are sucking the fun out of the hobbie so fast it's gonna choke. 

I was spamming about every 10- 15 minutes on the link that Jay threw up. I ordered 2....one for show, the other to keep. That was the max it showed I could get, unless I misread it. I think they might of limited this item, but no clue if you could go back to order more.

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1 hour ago, Emnems80 said:

Was at work when the live stream went down. Pre-ordered the Nimrod set. Wanted the Storm TBird 2 pack but as everyone has already seen, the pre-order is completely sold out. Disappointed Storm's bracelets are still black instead of gold but won't prevent me from buying it. But how many of the true collectors here were able to get their hands on it?

Hasbro. DO BETTER. All you had to do was follow this guy's example....

Classic-Storm-By-Rafaelocustoms-02__scaled_600.jpg

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1 hour ago, Emnems80 said:

Was at work when the live stream went down. Pre-ordered the Nimrod set. Wanted the Storm TBird 2 pack but as everyone has already seen, the pre-order is completely sold out. Disappointed Storm's bracelets are still black instead of gold but won't prevent me from buying it. But how many of the true collectors here were able to get their hands on it?

It went up during the 30 minutes I wasn't actively waiting for it, when I had to pick up my daughter, so I missed it. I feel okay about my odds of finding one at Target while only casually searching. Red Hulk was easy to get.

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Man this is such bullcrap, I swear Hasbro is doing this on purpose to suck all the fun out of the hobby. I mean, seriously? The one set most people want to complete their X-Men Second Genesis team is the one that Hasbro makes the hardest to get. I don't get it man, the Cyclops/Wolverine/Jean Grey set was readily available everywhere, same with the Colossus and Juggernaut set, what gives Hasbro? Why are you making it so hard for collectors to get their stuff? Especially now, with people being selective with what they purchase. I so wish someone in the collecting community would ask Hasbro about this, no punches pulled.

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29 minutes ago, PatoArmenta said:

Man this is such bullcrap, I swear Hasbro is doing this on purpose to suck all the fun out of the hobby. I mean, seriously? The one set most people want to complete their X-Men Second Genesis team is the one that Hasbro makes the hardest to get. I don't get it man, the Cyclops/Wolverine/Jean Grey set was readily available everywhere, same with the Colossus and Juggernaut set, what gives Hasbro? Why are you making it so hard for collectors to get their stuff? Especially now, with people being selective with what they purchase. I so wish someone in the collecting community would ask Hasbro about this, no punches pulled.

Ummmmm...it's not really Hasbro's fault.  I mean, sure, they are the ones who decided it would be an exclusive, but Target's crappy pre-order system is the issue.  Another user already said the exclusive Red Hulk was easy to find.  Target just set a limit to the preorders, which is probably WAY less than their planned order.  To make it cost effective for Hasbro, they are making thousands of this set.  It'll be ok, and pretty easy to find.  Trust me.

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17 minutes ago, MeGrimlock78 said:

Ummmmm...it's not really Hasbro's fault.  I mean, sure, they are the ones who decided it would be an exclusive, but Target's crappy pre-order system is the issue.  Another user already said the exclusive Red Hulk was easy to find.  Target just set a limit to the preorders, which is probably WAY less than their planned order.  To make it cost effective for Hasbro, they are making thousands of this set.  It'll be ok, and pretty easy to find.  Trust me.

Yeah, I just meant easy for me to find. I live in a major metropolitan area with dozens of Targets easily accessible. I totally believe people who live in more rural areas when they say these things are tough to come by. Hell, Emma Frost and the Cuckoos proved incredibly difficult for me to get, despite the myriad Walgreens nearby. I ended up trading for both. I've seen Emma in-store since then, but never a Cuckoo.

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This past couple of weeks have been a pain for collectors and preorders. I'm glad most of the stuff shown today was stuff that I wasn't dying to get because, man, what a fiasco. I want a Nimrod but not I'm gonna pay that much for a set that has 2 figures that I don't  want or need. The Storm/Thunderbird set looks nice but a bit overpriced in my opinion maybe if I find it in store, I might change my mind. Hellfire club looks great but I would have included Wyngarde and Harry Leland instead of the ladies who I feel could have done well in a wave. Anyway, after today I feel that I shouldn't even bother trying for the Hellfire set. 

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28 minutes ago, tarot said:

Guys. There is very little Hasbro can do about Target and Walmart. But they are working on it.

https://twitter.com/DanYunIsTrying/status/1285690708737884161?s=20

Well, it kind of depends on what you mean by "Hasbro".  If you mean Dan or Ryan or Dwight, then no, of course they don't make huge, unilateral decisions for the entire company, and maybe they are doing everything in their power to fix this.  But if you actually mean Hasbro, then yes, they could dramatically ameliorate the situation by taking two decisive, concrete actions:

1. Immediately discontinue single-store exclusive practices.

2. Manufacture enough product to cover pre-orders taken by all of their retailers.

I understand that fan-channel exclusives are a preferable avenue for some releases.  The Hellfire Club boxed set is an example.  There is no reason in the world that Moon Knight needs to be a Walgreens exclusive.  There is no reason in the world that Storm & Thunderbird needs to be  sold only at Target.  What, realistically, are Walgreens and Target and Walmart going to do if Hasbro stops single-store exclusives?  Not carry Marvel Legends?  That's absurd.  Marvel Legends is a collector-targeted product.  Yes, Grandma wondering through Walmart might pick up an Iron Man for her grandson's birthday present, but I think a much larger percentage of the purchases are being made by adult collectors buying figures for themselves.  And adult collectors will find their toys at the place that makes it easiest for them.  They just will.

Are Department stores maybe going to stop carrying other Hasbro or Marvel products unless they get their regular sweetheart deals?  Maybe that's not as absurd, but it would be highly unlikely and, frankly, stupid.  Hasbro's Hasbro.  Selling Marvel toys.  Marvel!  And Star Wars.  And Transformers.  And G.I. Joe.  They need to throw some weight around at somebody other than their fans for a change.

That was really great of Dan to acknowledge the issue.  He's passionate, I can tell.  He's a great hype man.  But until something actually changes, it's just lip-service from the hype man.  Don't say that you're sorry and that you hear us because how many times has this SAME. EXACT. SCENARIO played out in just the past few months?

If figures are released as fan-channel exclusives, then retailers would have to compete for business.  And you know who I'm going to buy from assuming uniform MSRP?  The store with the best customer service.  The store that makes an effort to care about customer concerns.  Stores may demonstrate attention to these areas by taking two decisive, concrete actions:

1. Ensuring that pre-orders are never canceled under any circumstances that are beyond the customer's control.

2. Placing safeguards (such as captchas) to ensure that bots can't place pre-orders.

Stores that cared to implement these two policies would get the majority of my business.  Obviously I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I bet they'd get the business of a lot of people on these boards as well.

Dan, thank you for acknowledging the issue and for bringing the hype.  I appreciate you.  Now tell me how the next time is going to go: fans first, as Hasbro promises, or fans last as Hasbro consistently demonstrates?  What are you going to be tweeting next Friday, Dan?  Is it going to be "Thanks, guys.  We listened, and we're glad everyone had fun today", or is it going to be "Sorry, guys.  We hear your frustrations.  We're working on it"?

Hasbro needs to get real.  Adult collectors do not have the time for this kind of stuff.  Folks are starting to rage quit.  I see it on here.  I see it on Reddit.  I see it on other boards.  I see it in real life.  Hasbro is poised to start hemorrhaging fans and revenue.  They are custodians of some very important and very lucrative brands, and the mismanagement of those brands is getting worse, not better.  It's time for Hasbro to take action.  Those actions right up there at the top of this post.  So what's it going to be?

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5 hours ago, JayC said:

Gone is seconds.

Hasbro is getting a lot of love during this pandemic...literally anything they release gets sold out...seems to be a golden age in toys....has it been always this crazy? I started collecting late 2019, I'm just floored at how much love and support the Marvel legends are getting especially the haslab sentinel.

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2 hours ago, Atlantis said:

Hasbro. DO BETTER. All you had to do was follow this guy's example....

Classic-Storm-By-Rafaelocustoms-02__scaled_600.jpg

Whoa there my friend. There are far too many curves on that thing to be certain that one very small sect of the collector community and Karens worldwide will not be offended, so we must tone down and censor the entire planet for the sensitivities of the minority. I'm choking up lunch here.

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5 minutes ago, EUPHORICVIKING said:

 

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That looks good. Unfortunately (and I'm sure you know this) at the time he wore this look in X-Force he did not have the Vibranium blades. But, the simple fact that they gave him 2 grip hands means they will most assuredly be doing the Black & Gray modern version very soon. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't use those exact blades for the molding process.

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Guest EUPHORICVIKING
8 minutes ago, monron999 said:

That looks good. Unfortunately (and I'm sure you know this) at the time he wore this look in X-Force he did not have the Vibranium blades. But, the simple fact that they gave him 2 grip hands means they will most assuredly be doing the Black & Gray modern version very soon. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't use those exact blades for the molding process.

I was only doing this because others had asked to see it. But they should be on an up and down hinge anyways.

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23 minutes ago, monron999 said:

That looks good. Unfortunately (and I'm sure you know this) at the time he wore this look in X-Force he did not have the Vibranium blades. But, the simple fact that they gave him 2 grip hands means they will most assuredly be doing the Black & Gray modern version very soon. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't use those exact blades for the molding process.

Much obliged friend.

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These problems are not as easy to solve as they may seem, and in many ways collectors are their own worst enemy. I've said all this before, but Hasbro works almost entirely on a made-to-order business model, and they do so for two reasons: 1) so that they don't have to shoulder any risk; and 2) so they can keep fans happy (sort of). Let me explain. TL;DR: Exclusives are here to stay, and Hasbro, its big-box partners, and consumers themselves are all complicit in the tangled web of artificial scarcity that keeps this product line going.

By the time any retailer starts soliciting preorders from customers, they've had their preorder numbers locked in with their distributor(s) for months. Hasbro has given those distributors deadlines to get their orders in for the first printing of any given product; deadlines that are normally months and months before they allow anyone to talk about these products. All the Fox X-Men stuff that just went up for preorder? I had to put in my store's preorders just after Toy Fair. The margins on this product line are virtually non-existent, both at retail and wholesale, so the reality is that stores order as safely as they can, only as much as they're sure they can sell, and distributors do the same. In turn, Hasbro greenlights production on the product preordered by distributors (based on the preorders from stores), and pads the order a little bit so they can take their own B2C preorders. By the time any consumer is placing a preorder, the numbers are all set. Hasbro has finalized their numbers with the factory and every store knows how many they're getting. Generally, the product has mostly already been produced and is simply en route from China.

This is a stupid system. It's great for Hasbro, who already know they've made money by the time they spend any, but it forces retailers to shoulder all the risk, which creates artifical scarcity of the product. Hasbro's solution is to have rolling deadlines, so any orders that come in after the first-printing deadline get product from the second printing, etc. Here's where collectors come in. They have two nasty habits that power this stupid machine: 1) they want everything cheap; and 2) they want everything now.

The wholesale pricing on Marvel Legends is unsustainable. In order for stores to really make a sustainable amount of money selling these figures they should be selling them for $30 each. I won't pretend to know what Hasbro's margins look like, or if there's any way they could lower their wholesale prices, but as long as collectors refuse to pay more than $20 for a figure, current wholesale pricing forces retailers to order conservatively. If you are paying $15 or less for a figure, it is being sold to you at a loss.

When a first printing sells out quickly and half the people who didn't get the figure the first time around throw their arms up in frustration and stop looking for it, it sends Hasbro the signal that demand has dried up. Now, part of that equation is retailers and distributors, who usually stop offering preorders after the initial wave. But why do they do that? Because customers almost always cancel second-printing preorders, thinking they can score the figure elsewhere sooner. Those preorders are often cancelled after it's too late for the retailer to cancel their own preorders, leaving them with unsold stock that people have stopped looking for. In turn, they order conservatively and don't bother trying to restock. Those are the signals their customers' behaviour is sending them.

So, the solutions? If the MSRP went way up without wholesale prices rising, stores could afford to take more risks, which would eliminate the scarcity. A lot of people would probably stop collecting, but everyone else would have a much easier time finding things. This would likely be a net loss for Hasbro, but who knows?

If Hasbro lowered the wholesale cost, it would achieve the same effect without losing the customers, but would cut into Hasbro's bottom line.

If Hasbro stopped selling in assortments, savvy retailers could order higher on the in-demand figures and skip the more obscure ones, which would also make a dent in scarcity, but would sabotage Hasbro's ability to spread the costs of figures out within assortments. This would likely lead to the end of BAFs, the end of more obscure figures, and possibly higher prices on more elaborate figures.

Hasbro could start taking the risk themselves and printing based on sales data and growth projections, rather than forced secret preorders... buuuut, this would likely go badly because distributors and retailers would still order conservatively because of the pricing, which would probably lead to Hasbro getting stuck with product, and subsequently reducing production. Maybe not, because at least retailers and distributors could quickly restock, but who knows?

Finally, Hasbro could start announcing products and soliciting preorders much earlier, so fans could preorder before production began, but consumers have proven that they just don't have the attention spans for that. This would mean preordering 6 months to a year before release. That's fine for the occasional high-profile crowd-funding project, but would result in constant mass preorder cancellation if it were the norm. Very few people lead stable enough lives to make their purchasing decisions that far in advance, and many of those people would talk themselves out of the purchases anyway. There's a reason companies routinely make their formal announcements a month or two out from release. History has shown that sales suffer if hype is allowed to dwindle.

So, Hasbro's options aren't actually super clear. Where do exclusives fit into this? Stores like Walmart and Target are known for their low prices, and Legends is a dead-end for profit. The only reason Target and Walmart want to carry the line is as a loss-leader. They want you to come in looking for Legends and walk out with toilet paper instead. And from that perspective, it behooves them to restock rarely and encourage a certain amount of scarcity. What good is artificial scarcity if your customers can just buy from someone else, though? So, yes, it's likely that Walmart would get out of the Legends game entirely without exclusives. They don't want to sell Legends. They just want Legends customers to buy high-margin items from them. The only way they can fully control a profitable level of scarcity is to have exclusives and then intentionally under-order them. Without that, there'd be little reason to carry the line at all. You need to sell 6.5 figures out of a case at MSRP to break even on that case. If there are two pegwarmers in a wave, you're selling at a loss.

So, unfortunately, if you want a line of $20 figures with deep character selection, build-a-figures, and no exclusives or artificial scarcity, I'm afraid you're out of luck. Hasbro has to lick a lot of boots to preserve the things about the line that collectors like, and scarcity is the price we pay to keep that all intact. If you made it this far, I'm proud of you. I'm certainly not proofreading all of that.

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18 minutes ago, Benn said:

 Where do exclusives fit into this? Stores like Walmart and Target are known for their low prices, and Legends is a dead-end for profit. The only reason Target and Walmart want to carry the line is as a loss-leader. They want you to come in looking for Legends and walk out with toilet paper instead. And from that perspective, it behooves them to restock rarely and encourage a certain amount of scarcity. What good is artificial scarcity if your customers can just buy from someone else, though? So, yes, it's likely that Walmart would get out of the Legends game entirely without exclusives. They don't want to sell Legends. They just want Legends customers to buy high-margin items from them. The only way they can fully control a profitable level of scarcity is to have exclusives and then intentionally under-order them. Without that, there'd be little reason to carry the line at all. You need to sell 6.5 figures out of a case at MSRP to break even on that case. If there are two pegwarmers in a wave, you're selling at a loss.

Following up on this, I assume that with regards to exclusives, Target (and WM, etc) limit the portion of the production run that gets put up for preorder, simply because they want a good chunk of the run to make it into stores so that the exclusive can serve its intended purpose as a loss leader.

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