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Chinaka Hodge Comes On Board As Head Writer For Disney+ Ironheart Series


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1 hour ago, slugzilla said:

I'm not trying to argue with anyone about their political beliefs. I'm simply expressing my belief that one should be able to go to a movie or watch a tv show for the purpose of escaping everyday politics and the the horrors of the world, without being preached to by a character in the shows/movies with a political agenda, no matter where you may fall on the political spectrum.

Just the other day, the final episode of Falcon & The Winter Soldier was released and the character of the Falcon gave a what felt like a ten minute long impromptu speech about social injustice. If people want to see stuff like that, literally all they have to do is turn on literally any tv channel or visit any news site.

Why do the things we use to try to escape into a fantasy world have to constantly push political messages on the audience?

Politics are so toxic and intense these days and we are surrounded by these issues at all times, propaganda is injected into everything, why does this toxic crap need to be in our escapist fantasy superhero and space war related films and tv shows too?

It seems that those who make these shows and movies care more about promoting their political beliefs than they care about making a quality product. It's rather annoying if you ask me.

agreed... I just want to see Iron Man fight Blizzard or the Melter or whoever in the titanic two-fisted Mighty Marvel Manner and stuff like that to be entertained as mainstream super-hero comics are a traditionally fantasy/escapism outlet.

More science fiction. Less political science, please.

 

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The interesting thing to me about the political messages in comics/movies/media/etc is that it's always from one perspective. When's the last time there was a pro-life message in something or a Christian view? Stan Lee had Captain America mention Jesus sacrifice on the cross in an issue of tales of suspense. Would that fly nowadays? Maybe Daredevil has said something like that but I really don't think so otherwise. I just miss the days when superheroes were superheroes. Now it feels more like gods doing battle with bigger gods and trying to teach us how awful we all are. Just my 10 cents. Take it for what it's worth. 

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13 minutes ago, sentinelofliberty41 said:

The interesting thing to me about the political messages in comics/movies/media/etc is that it's always from one perspective. When's the last time there was a pro-life message in something or a Christian view? Stan Lee had Captain America mention Jesus sacrifice on the cross in an issue of tales of suspense. Would that fly nowadays? Maybe Daredevil has said something like that but I really don't think so otherwise. I just miss the days when superheroes were superheroes. Now it feels more like gods doing battle with bigger gods and trying to teach us how awful we all are. Just my 10 cents. Take it for what it's worth. 

Yeah, I think it could be a great service to allow some diversity of thought. It's up to them, and maybe those who want to see other opinions represented need to start their own comics.

I certainly don't want to shoe-horn overt Christian messaging into Dr. Strange since the two would be pretty contrary to each other. I don't think the Black Panther should be forced to go full MAGA. If Nightcrawler wanted to fight Kermit Gosnell, that seems like a legitimate story that would flow naturally from the character's story.

Do you know what the issue of Tales of Suspense that was? What were you referencing about Daredevil?

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13 minutes ago, sentinelofliberty41 said:

The interesting thing to me about the political messages in comics/movies/media/etc is that it's always from one perspective. When's the last time there was a pro-life message in something or a Christian view? Stan Lee had Captain America mention Jesus sacrifice on the cross in an issue of tales of suspense. Would that fly nowadays? Maybe Daredevil has said something like that but I really don't think so otherwise. I just miss the days when superheroes were superheroes. Now it feels more like gods doing battle with bigger gods and trying to teach us how awful we all are. Just my 10 cents. Take it for what it's worth. 

Wasn't that long ago that MCU Steve Rogers said there was only one God (and he doesn't dress like Thor).  That was in one of the highest-grossing movies of all time, so t's not like they tried to bury it.

I don't think I've ever seen a comic pregnancy that ended in a voluntary termination of the pregnancy.  So it seems like they're already "pro life."  

What Christian values do you feel comic book superheroes are not upholding or displaying beyond (in most cases) open reverence for Christ and proselytizing?

Oh, and I would note:  Neither political side (in the US) has a monopoly on Christianity.  While there's a lot of interplay between religion and politics (far too much, if you ask me), what you're talking about are religious values, not political stances.

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16 minutes ago, sentinelofliberty41 said:

The interesting thing to me about the political messages in comics/movies/media/etc is that it's always from one perspective. When's the last time there was a pro-life message in something or a Christian view? Stan Lee had Captain America mention Jesus sacrifice on the cross in an issue of tales of suspense. Would that fly nowadays? Maybe Daredevil has said something like that but I really don't think so otherwise. I just miss the days when superheroes were superheroes. Now it feels more like gods doing battle with bigger gods and trying to teach us how awful we all are. Just my 10 cents. Take it for what it's worth. 

Very well said. Myself, and many others also miss the days when superheroes were just superheroes.

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Marvel has always prided itself on being "The world outside your window."

Ignoring social ills and political climates just so people can feel comfortable with themselves means it's no longer meeting that statement.

Being able to "not pay attention to Politics" means you can ignore problems exist because you feel like they don't affect you (and indeed they might not...or you might even benefit from the status quo, even if you might not realize exactly how), and if you remain ignorant of a problem then you cannot be any real part of helping to solve the problem.

Entertainment across all media and genres always will be politically charged to some degree, because it always has been (and before certain people start parsing words, I don't mean every single piece of entertainment is political.  I mean every medium and genre has been politicized at one point or another).  And that's a good thing, because sometimes letting some of those problems be portrayed through the lens of fiction is the only way some people come to realize the problem exists.  And once we all can agree that there IS a problem we can start working on how to fix it.

But we're still working on that first part, at the moment.

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1 hour ago, Benn said:

No, my argument was that straight cis white men are uniquely situated to pretend that bigotry doesn't exist

This is where you lost all credibility in my eyes. Bigotry exists on both sides of the isle. Each side just as vicious as the other. Heck you're obviously bigoted against white men. You act like white people are the only racists, look in the mirror.

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9 minutes ago, slugzilla said:

This is where you lost all credibility in my eyes. Bigotry exists on both sides of the isle. Each side just as vicious as the other. Heck you're obviously bigoted against white men. You act like white people are the only racists, look in the mirror.

In the mirror? I'll see a straight cis white man. I have never been the victim of racism. Not once. That's the sort of privilege I enjoy as a white man in the US. Bigotry only has power when it comes from people who enjoy social privilege. One person hating people with a particular characteristic is a symptom of bigotry, not bigotry itself. I don't harbour bias against white people. I just pay attention, and listen to non-white people when they tell me how their lives are affected by my actions.

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I am putting this warning out to all. You can have a discussion and express your views without attacking another person who has different views. If you dont agree with someone else we don't need to hear you tell us as such. We dont need a back and fourth of such and such saying im right and your wrong.

Regardless of your view, your likely not going to say anything here or any place online for that matter that is going to change someone else's mind who doesnt see it your way already. If you have something intelligent to say on the subject then say it and allow who ever reads it to make up their own mind and move one.

If you can't abide by that then your posts will be deleted. ALSO WE NEED TO STAY ON TOPIC. Off topics will also be deleted.

 

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I think it's cool that we get to see so many different views along the years in entertainment. We get to see how far we've come, and how much we've yet to grow as a civilization, or even just how much we've changed. Not even 10 years ago movies were still making fun of homosexuals and giving gay a negative connotation, is it good it's stopped? I like to think so. 

In any case, I think it's funny how riled up people get when they see that what they do and how they do it is hurting someone else and are asked to stop. It really does sound like whining to complain about "wokeness showing how the black are oppressed by the white" when the message is easily interpreted as "I'm hurt that you say I can't hurt you anymore".

Anyway, who's ready for Loki?

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As for the actual subject of Marvel, they are going to do what they do. If you want to call that "Woke" or whatever and thats your choice, but they aren't going to go "oh we are being woke we better stop".  If you don't like it then dont watch it, buy it or whatever. Thats your choice.

IMO comics and many other things like say Star Trek have always taken steps to be inclusive and progressive to all. Star Trek showed the first interracial kiss on national TV in the 60s. People where outraged at the time, but guess what Star Trek lived on.  Even cartoons like GIJOe, MOTU and the like often had messages of the time that seems like some of you would now classify as being "Woke", Things like portraying female characters in positions of strength, but yet most of you watching that stuff as a kid probably didnt even realize it.

I look at things like Captain America. Steve Rogers will always be the on true Captain America for me, but it didn't bother me any more when Sam Wilson became Cap for a while then it did when John Walker did. If its a good story I am all for it, both Walker and Wilson I think came out being better characters.

No not everything Marvel does is good and I am sure there is some "lets do this so we can get national headlines and therfore get boosts in sales", but thats business. It doesnt mean its always bad.

 

 

 

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Final note I have gone through the thread and cleaned out the blatant attacks while trying as best as possible to leave posts with both sides points of view that where made without attacking others. 

Again you can express an opinion without attacking someone else who has a different view.

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One final note after reading through the comments. IMO comics have very rarely been about just heroes fighting against villains. Good storytelling again IMO always mirrors itself on real world events. Thats not to say there isn't mindless stuff out there to watch, but your best stories usually focus on the times. X-Men themselves where essentially based on the civil rights movement of the 60's. 

The big difference to me in comics between now and then is just the quality of writing is not what it once was overall. Thats not to say there arent still some good writers out there, but I personally have found the overall quality of comics to have gone down hill while prices go up. There are a number of industry reasons for this and thats not really the point of the topic. My point is that I think the difference is that that the writers of old did a better job of disguising  what some deem "wokeness" better in their stories than they do today. You weren't hit over the top of the head with it. There is also an element of marketing that comes into play. Again when they change a white character to black, that grabs national headlines which boosts sales temporarily.  That doesnt mean the story is bad because they made a white character black, but it does make it seem more like its being done as a gimmick than it is for purposes of good storytelling.

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39 minutes ago, JayC said:

One final note after reading through the comments. IMO comics have very rarely been about just heroes fighting against villains. Good storytelling again IMO always mirrors itself on real world events. Thats not to say there isn't mindless stuff out there to watch, but your best stories usually focus on the times. X-Men themselves where essentially based on the civil rights movement of the 60's. 

The big difference to me in comics between now and then is just the quality of writing is not what it once was overall. Thats not to say there arent still some good writers out there, but I personally have found the overall quality of comics to have gone down hill while prices go up. There are a number of industry reasons for this and thats not really the point of the topic. My point is that I think the difference is that that the writers of old did a better job of disguising  what some deem "wokeness" better in their stories than they do today. You weren't hit over the top of the head with it. There is also an element of marketing that comes into play. Again when they change a white character to black, that grabs national headlines which boosts sales temporarily.  That doesnt mean the story is bad because they made a white character black, but it does make it seem more like its being done as a gimmick than it is for purposes of good storytelling.

I agree with your take about the X-Men being an analogue for the civil rights movement. It worked without being too heavy handed.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Marvel should write according to the the worldview of the Klan, but they also don't need to go the route of Ibram Kendi. They of course can, but much has been made of the seeming equation of Jordan Peterson and the Red Skull. That could be considered an abusive ad hominem that is not fairly representing a particular position. It's annoying, but not worth fighting about on a message board where no problems can be fixed.

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3 hours ago, JayC said:

My point is that I think the difference is that that the writers of old did a better job of disguising  what some deem "wokeness" better in their stories than they do today.

Yeah, man. Old comics sure were subtle. Suuuper disguised. Almost invisible.

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7 hours ago, Chunkylover said:

Yeah, I think it could be a great service to allow some diversity of thought. It's up to them, and maybe those who want to see other opinions represented need to start their own comics.

I certainly don't want to shoe-horn overt Christian messaging into Dr. Strange since the two would be pretty contrary to each other. I don't think the Black Panther should be forced to go full MAGA. If Nightcrawler wanted to fight Kermit Gosnell, that seems like a legitimate story that would flow naturally from the character's story.

Do you know what the issue of Tales of Suspense that was? What were you referencing about Daredevil?

I was mistaken, it's Captain America issue 105. On the last page Batroc is fleeing the scene when a bomb is about to go off and tells Cap he stupidly risks his life for the undeserving masses to which Cap responds: "There was another who gave his life for the masses many centuries ago--and though he was the wisest one of all he never thought of the humblest living being as undeserving."  And I was only referencing Daredevil just because I've seen a few issues where he is openly catholic.

7 hours ago, Jmacq1 said:

 

Wasn't that long ago that MCU Steve Rogers said there was only one God (and he doesn't dress like Thor).  That was in one of the highest-grossing movies of all time, so t's not like they tried to bury it.

I don't think I've ever seen a comic pregnancy that ended in a voluntary termination of the pregnancy.  So it seems like they're already "pro life."  

What Christian values do you feel comic book superheroes are not upholding or displaying beyond (in most cases) open reverence for Christ and proselytizing?

Oh, and I would note:  Neither political side (in the US) has a monopoly on Christianity.  While there's a lot of interplay between religion and politics (far too much, if you ask me), what you're talking about are religious values, not political stances.

I can't believe I forgot the Rogers God quote as that's one of my favorite lines from him. My nerd card just got a hole punched in it. Also, I'm only using pro-life and christian views as an example of things we don't see in anything (not just comics) vs. how much we see others. And not just for superheroes but for anything. I don't expect those views to be expressed but we do see pro-choice messages in a lot of stuff, for example. 

7 hours ago, slugzilla said:

Very well said. Myself, and many others also miss the days when superheroes were just superheroes.

Thanks.

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I’m hoping that this gives us another shot at RiRi but in her Iron Heart MK III armor which is an awesome look. 

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Again posts need to stay on topic and off-topic threads will be deleted. This thread isn't about whether there is racism in the world. 

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17 hours ago, Chunkylover said:

I agree with your take about the X-Men being an analogue for the civil rights movement. It worked without being too heavy handed.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Marvel should write according to the the worldview of the Klan, but they also don't need to go the route of Ibram Kendi. They of course can, but much has been made of the seeming equation of Jordan Peterson and the Red Skull. That could be considered an abusive ad hominem that is not fairly representing a particular position. It's annoying, but not worth fighting about on a message board where no problems can be fixed.

So some where seemingly suggesting comics shouldnt and didnt address real life happenings. That it should just be mindless entertainment of super heroes beating up bad guys. I've never seen comics or many things we watch for entertainment in this genre being that in general, and shows like Star Trek have IMO very much bought about positive social change because of that, and again in many cases I think without some even realizing it.

I can't speak to modern storylines as I dont read comics much any more mainly because IMO they are way to expensive. That being said if someone doesn't like how a writer portrays a particular character or likes the narrative they seem to be pushing, then my advise is simply don't buy it. If enough people actually agree with you and do the same, believe me that will send a far louder message to a company than any amount of online ranting.

 

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On 4/30/2021 at 8:16 AM, JayC said:

So some where seemingly suggesting comics shouldnt and didnt address real life happenings. That it should just be mindless entertainment of super heroes beating up bad guys. I've never seen comics or many things we watch for entertainment in this genre being that in general, and shows like Star Trek have IMO very much bought about positive social change because of that, and again in many cases I think without some even realizing it.

I can't speak to modern storylines as I dont read comics much any more mainly because IMO they are way to expensive. That being said if someone doesn't like how a writer portrays a particular character or likes the narrative they seem to be pushing, then my advise is simply don't buy it. If enough people actually agree with you and do the same, believe me that will send a far louder message to a company than any amount of online ranting.

 

I grew up as a kid reading comics from the late 70s & 80s and while they may have had Political stuff in them, they were never shoved down our throats the way they do today. The one story arc that always stuck with me as a kid was the classic GL/GA arc about Oliver finding out that Speedy was a heroin junkie. Great story, great art & it sent a strong message about the destructive nature of Heroin & drug usage. 

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