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Marvel Legends 2022 Haslab Live-Stream Coverage


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On 9/26/2022 at 8:46 AM, glhshelby said:

I have to agree, I don’t think the Early Bird tactician swayed many people by itself. People who were going to back the HISS tank still would’ve backed it. But I do agree that it was a value ad for people who are on the fence, as opposed to a figure that most people would consider integral to the product as a whole, like Reyes. 

I agree 100% that the early bird for the HISS Tank didnt do much that it was the base product itself. The GIJoe Haslab proved people have no problem paying that much for a vehicle if its something they actually want. The biggest problem with this one is that A. Marvel and vehicles just don't go hand in hand like they do with G.I. Joe and B. They choose a vehicle that in general just didnt have that wide of an appeal. Even if the Ghost Rider name was really that big, everyone has their own favorite version of Ghost Rider.

I think any vehicle for Marvel Legends would be a hard sell but there are certainly vehicles they could have tried to start with that likely would have been more popular than this. I get it was Ghost Rider's Anniversary but this when it boils down to it was not a smart pick for a Haslab.

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On 9/26/2022 at 11:37 AM, Jeddostotle7 said:

honestly I don't even think it did work for the HISS Tank, I think it just funded that fast purely by the nature of GI Joe fans; managing to get the Tactician was simply a byproduct

another reason is like the Sentinel, it was an army build so people were buying multiples.

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On 9/26/2022 at 7:46 AM, glhshelby said:

I have to agree, I don’t think the Early Bird tactician swayed many people by itself. People who were going to back the HISS tank still would’ve backed it. But I do agree that it was a value ad for people who are on the fence, as opposed to a figure that most people would consider integral to the product as a whole, like Reyes. 

Not only was the HISS bigger and cheaper, but there was much more demand for that product than this particular version of GR. Vehicles and weapons were an enormous part of the original line and I'm actually very surprised there has not been more product based on those original vehicles, but that demand is always gonna be greater among the Joe fans. Dead horse beaten, but the price was completely indefensible for what the set consisted of. And I know, I know, Hasbro owns the GI Joe property outright so they can charge less. That's just BS and it's a total copout. They wanted the Marvel license, they wanted to exploit the crap out of it, that's on them. They still shoulda known better that this price was just a bridge too far. If they'd have sweetened the pot with the Robbie figure (again, what good is a "normal" car without a normal dude?) and Mephisto maybe it would have went over better. Honestly, when the clues started to be revealed I thought no way was the entirety of the Haslab gonna be just the Hellcharger GR, I thought for sure it would be a Robbie/Ketch double pack with both vehicles. I strongly feel that would have funded with zero concern. Hasbro had to know there was a threshold that we would eventually hit and I think now they know what it is. If they want to salvage this GR Anniversary event they're gonna have to do better than this.

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On 9/26/2022 at 11:37 AM, Jeddostotle7 said:

honestly I don't even think it did work for the HISS Tank, I think it just funded that fast purely by the nature of GI Joe fans; managing to get the Tactician was simply a byproduct

As I said there were a lot of factors that helped the HISS Tank, but going from the chatter at the time people did want the Tactician. Again whether it did or didn't help the speed we will never know 

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I truly don’t understand the secrecy of the tiers if you show what we can get and at what price points we must hit upfront hen it may entice more backers but if there gonna be all well we won’t show you the tiers till they are ready to unlock is a stupid strategy and will cost nothing to say Mephisto at 12k blackheart at 14k nightmare at 16k and his brother gabe with wheelchair at 18k  just for example I don’t know the actual unlocks of course 

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This is such a great discussion.  

Hasbro fundamentally misunderstands the role of unlock tiers in their kickstarters (aka haslabs).

All successful kickstarters have an advertised product and a price for it.  They don't have you wait to unlock all the tiers to make the price of the whole package "worth it".
The unlock tiers are NEVER used to get the original product funded. Instead, the unlock tiers are used to whip up backer volumes (which reduces costs due to higher volumes of production). That's the purpose of the tiers (plus all the attention associated with the frenzy).

Hasbro needs to first focus on the product and original price. Then pick tier add-ons that can be added for "free" due to reduced costs associated with scaling production.  

Their current method puts the "cart before the horse" and is focused more on greed than a successful marketing strategy.

 

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Not sure if this has been said, but I hope they DON'T show the other stretch goals.  If they keep them under wraps, they can release them down the line with no one thinking Hasbro is going back on their word.  As it stands, if they do release human Robbie or Mephisto now, fans will always think twice before funding a HasLab.  Why go HasLab if there's a chance stretch goals will just be released anyway?

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On 9/26/2022 at 9:49 AM, hapster05 said:

This is such a great discussion.  

Hasbro fundamentally misunderstands the role of unlock tiers in their kickstarters (aka haslabs).

All successful kickstarters have an advertised product and a price for it.  They don't have you wait to unlock all the tiers to make the price of the whole package "worth it".
The unlock tiers are NEVER used to get the original product funded. Instead, the unlock tiers are used to whip up backer volumes (which reduces costs due to higher volumes of production). That's the purpose of the tiers (plus all the attention associated with the frenzy).

Hasbro needs to first focus on the product and original price. Then pick tier add-ons that can be added for "free" due to reduced costs associated with scaling production.  

Their current method puts the "cart before the horse" and is focused more on greed than a successful marketing strategy.

 

But don't you think they must have research that shows somehow that spreading out the tiers somehow makes me more people overall aware of the product or somesuch, or maybe that its somehow tied into the broader brand awareness (obviously backfiring here, but you get what i mean). Yes i don't think its working well but i assume there is some reasoning behind it all, including the ML team revealing new figures in dribs and drabs every few weeks.  I'm sure evidence would show that spreading stuff out does increase social media chatter significantly, which feels like common sense as well,

but either Hasbro is naive in understanding how negative social chatter builds on itself (and indeed is incentivized by the reward of clicks/views) or they just assume all publicity is good even if negative.  I tend to think they underestimated how rewarding negativity can be in this social media environment and also just plain overestimated demand for the charger, especially in this specific environment - inflation has cut back on people's spending and also led to sticker shock, haslabs aren't the novelty they once were and we've seen a few fail now so its not so surprising. last but not least c'mon just put Galactus, Sentinel and this charger side by side and tell me you think they should all cost the same. 

All that said, i do hope it meets the 9K so people who want the hellcharger can get it! if you are a hardcore fan and can afford it, why not? it does look cool (even if i think it could've looked better).

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I assume The Orb that Hasbro previously hinted at would've been one of the unlock tiers. If the kickstarter fails, then I'm hoping they might repaint that figure and release it at retail alongside a classic Mephisto.

I know Hasbro said that they won't be releasing anything from failed Haslab products at retail, but if they repaint/redo the figures, then it technically isn't the same product. I guess I'm just holding out hope for these figures to be released somehow, because I'm certain that characters with such unique and cool designs would do just fine at retail.

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On 9/26/2022 at 9:49 AM, hapster05 said:

Hasbro fundamentally misunderstands the role of unlock tiers in their kickstarters (aka haslabs).

All successful kickstarters have an advertised product and a price for it.  They don't have you wait to unlock all the tiers to make the price of the whole package "worth it".
The unlock tiers are NEVER used to get the original product funded. Instead, the unlock tiers are used to whip up backer volumes (which reduces costs due to higher volumes of production). That's the purpose of the tiers (plus all the attention associated with the frenzy).

Hasbro needs to first focus on the product and original price. Then pick tier add-ons that can be added for "free" due to reduced costs associated with scaling production.  

Their current method puts the "cart before the horse" and is focused more on greed than a successful marketing strategy.

Right on the money.

On 9/26/2022 at 10:13 AM, bashpics99 said:

But don't you think they must have research that shows somehow that spreading out the tiers somehow makes me more people overall aware of the product or somesuch, or maybe that its somehow tied into the broader brand awareness (obviously backfiring here, but you get what i mean)

I can only guess in this situation that their data is skewed or has been misinterpreted, or the general execution was just a mis-fire from the get-go.

Guess you could say this Haslab is... going down in flames.

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On 9/26/2022 at 3:49 PM, WilsonFisk4President said:

I assume The Orb that Hasbro previously hinted at would've been one of the unlock tiers. If the kickstarter fails, then I'm hoping they might repaint that figure and release it at retail alongside a classic Mephisto.

I know Hasbro said that they won't be releasing anything from failed Haslab products at retail, but if they repaint/redo the figures, then it technically isn't the same product. I guess I'm just holding out hope for these figures to be released somehow, because I'm certain that characters with such unique and cool designs would do just fine at retail.

No. According to new rumors, Orb is part of an Avengers wave

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I think that number was somewhat artificially inflated when it was over 6,000 anyway. I have no idea how many people were doing this, but I've read in the Fwoosh forums how people were signing up for the max of 5 sets just to try to get the number to 9,000 by Friday despite no intention of keeping all of those orders... and they were trying to convince others to do the same and couldn't understand why everyone wouldn't just do it. Since the deadline has passed, those people have likely cancelled their extra orders. Now this may only be a handful of people or it might be quite many, I have no idea. Regardless it likely had some impact, even if it was minimal. Perhaps the only way to curtail that kind of manipulation is to require payment at time of order. 

 

 

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On 9/26/2022 at 4:24 PM, Reno said:

I think that number was somewhat artificially inflated when it was over 6,000 anyway. I have no idea how many people were doing this, but I've read in the Fwoosh forums how people were signing up for the max of 5 sets just to try to get the number to 9,000 by Friday despite no intention of keeping all of those orders... and they were trying to convince others to do the same and couldn't understand why everyone wouldn't just do it. Since the deadline has passed, those people have likely cancelled their extra orders. Now this may only be a handful of people or it might be quite many, I have no idea. Regardless it likely had some impact, even if it was minimal. Perhaps the only way to curtail that kind of manipulation is to require payment at time of order. 

 

 

They were doing it all over. Hell even Influencers were trying to convince people to do this. They were trying to cheat the system without realizing that if they fully backed it and the numbers went under the 9000, the  Robbie would have been locked again.

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For me, $350 was just too much for a car. We see large companies dish out in-scaled vehicles all of the time, with varying degrees of features, at a fraction of the price. Even the UA Turtle Van was less than $250, it's massive and they were indie. I'm scared for the Punisher van now, so I'll continue my hunt for a random van I can use for it.

For $350, right out of the gate, it should've been the Hellcharger AND a Danny Ketch bike, of course with both Robbie Reyes'.  Lets look at it saying that is a $50 Legendary Rider figure, and still they'd get their overpriced car & figure at $300 value. And that would be the initial base offering. Myself, as well as others did initially expect another bike, but they silenced that noise with a response. The early bird should have been "if you backed it by the end of the week, you get this throw-in", with perhaps being some random headsculpts, and additional flamed weapons. For those that tally the tiers in the overall value (IMO is still a wrong way at looking at it), then they could still add Mephisto (a $45-50 deluxe figure at their prices, and a repainted figure). Hell, they could have even kitbashed Alejandra GR (she's a Black Widow upper torso on a Domino figure) or Danny Ketch GR. That would still make the car w/ figure $225.

The Fantastic Car is one they could do as Haslab, but I don't know what they could include to make value it at $400. But they could also do it as a Riders series

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On 9/26/2022 at 9:13 AM, bashpics99 said:

But don't you think they must have research that shows somehow that spreading out the tiers somehow makes me more people overall aware of the product or somesuch, or maybe that its somehow tied into the broader brand awareness (obviously backfiring here, but you get what i mean). Yes i don't think its working well but i assume there is some reasoning behind it all, including the ML team revealing new figures in dribs and drabs every few weeks.  I'm sure evidence would show that spreading stuff out does increase social media chatter significantly, which feels like common sense as well,

but either Hasbro is naive in understanding how negative social chatter builds on itself (and indeed is incentivized by the reward of clicks/views) or they just assume all publicity is good even if negative.  I tend to think they underestimated how rewarding negativity can be in this social media environment and also just plain overestimated demand for the charger, especially in this specific environment - inflation has cut back on people's spending and also led to sticker shock, haslabs aren't the novelty they once were and we've seen a few fail now so its not so surprising. last but not least c'mon just put Galactus, Sentinel and this charger side by side and tell me you think they should all cost the same. 

All that said, i do hope it meets the 9K so people who want the hellcharger can get it! if you are a hardcore fan and can afford it, why not? it does look cool (even if i think it could've looked better).

You make a great point.  I don't know for sure, but I think either or both of these things happened:

1 - Marvel Hasbro Group didn't have to deal with the "just get the original product sold" before, so they took that part for granted and as a result are interpreting the role of tiers incorrectly.  Tiers should never be a part of the original product, but since the previous Marvel Haslabs hit their goal so fast, Hasbro never understood that. They were spoiled so they missed the lesson to be learned.

2 -  Marvel Hasbro Group is being a little greedy and thinking they can charge whatever they want for these things, and we will just buy it.  I'm seeing this for lots of Hasbro items, not just the Haslab.  Perhaps it's coming from the top to see what the limits are for prices?  Hopefully they are getting good data because even the prices of single figures are causing me to pick and choose now instead of buying 80% of them.

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On 9/26/2022 at 10:27 AM, tarot said:

They were doing it all over. Hell even Influencers were trying to convince people to do this. They were trying to cheat the system without realizing that if they fully backed it and the numbers went under the 9000, the  Robbie would have been locked again.

Well, what I think they were hoping to do is get a wave rolling where once it was fully funded all the people that were on the fence would pull the trigger and then eventually it would attract other buyers with FOMO and then they would retract 4 of their 5 orders hoping the flood of orders would sustain the tiers. I honestly think if this thing had blown through the funding process and the tiers as fast as the HISS did I would have kept my order in the till and probably convinced myself the price wasn't all that ridiculous based on the fact that so many people didn't think so either. 

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On 9/26/2022 at 11:33 AM, hapster05 said:

You make a great point.  I don't know for sure, but I think either or both of these things happened:

1 - Marvel Hasbro Group didn't have to deal with the "just get the original product sold" before, so they took that part for granted and as a result are interpreting the role of tiers incorrectly.  Tiers should never be a part of the original product, but since the previous Marvel Haslabs hit their goal so fast, Hasbro never understood that. They were spoiled so they missed the lesson to be learned.

2 -  Marvel Hasbro Group is being a little greedy and thinking they can charge whatever they want for these things, and we will just buy it.  I'm seeing this for lots of Hasbro items, not just the Haslab.  Perhaps it's coming from the top to see what the limits are for prices?  Hopefully they are getting good data because even the prices of single figures are causing me to pick and choose now instead of buying 80% of them.

I think the issue is that Hasbro executives want Kickstarter type funding without giving anything extra. Extra tiers aren't really going to be extra because they have to already be built into the price. Then the issue becomes that those extra tiers are built into the price, but not revealed yet. Extra tiers already built into the price but not yet revealed makes the set seem like a ripoff to consumers.

 

They need to either make the extra tiers truly extra and not built into the initial price OR reveal or even include them from the beginning.

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On 9/26/2022 at 1:31 PM, NotNamed said:

I think the issue is that Hasbro executives want Kickstarter type funding without giving anything extra. Extra tiers aren't really going to be extra because they have to already be built into the price. Then the issue becomes that those extra tiers are built into the price, but not revealed yet. Extra tiers already built into the price but not yet revealed makes the set seem like a ripoff to consumers.

 

They need to either make the extra tiers truly extra and not built into the initial price OR reveal or even include them from the beginning.

EXACTLY RIGHT!  This goes back to my original thought that the fundamentally misunderstand what the tiers are supposed to do. 

In a sense, the true number of backers needed is NOT 9000, but whatever the number is for the last tier (which is currently a secret).  That is NOT how kickstarters get funded.

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On 9/26/2022 at 11:27 AM, tarot said:

They were doing it all over. Hell even Influencers were trying to convince people to do this. They were trying to cheat the system without realizing that if they fully backed it and the numbers went under the 9000, the  Robbie would have been locked again.

I think if the campaign had gotten to 9k before the 23rd and the Early bird figure was said to be included, even if the numbers dropped after that the early bird would continue to be included. There was nothing that said if the numbers ever drop below 9k we take the early bird back. It was def a loophole which Hasbro will likely correct in the future, and it was a dumb idea to begin with to suggest people back something they didnt want so they could cancel but it didnt matter because it didnt get to 9k.

The early bird which was the same figure as the regular Ghost Rider with a different headsculpt and different colored pants was set as the early bird because it didn't add a huge additional expense to the campaign. Hasbro could have just as easily included the Robbie figure as a second figure regardless of when it when it hits 9k and it would't cost them any more, but they were hopping it would entice more people to back the campaign more quickly. As was mentioned before even with the HISS Tank, I dont think the early bird figure played a huge role, that just happened to be an item overall people wanted more than this. I would say Hasbro should have come out this weekend and said we are still going to include the early bird figure just as a thanks to those who have already gone on and backed it, but my guess they are to afraid if they did that then people wouldnt believe anything they said in the future, which many people already don't.

The reason why Mephisto couldn't be used as the early bird as some have suggested is because that was a completely new figure and added a significantly higher cost to the overall campaign. Now Hasbro could have started out saying the min Backers needed was 12k and then used Mephisto as the early bird which maybe would have been smarter, but who knows.

This isn't a true kickstarter and yes Hasbro could just phrase these things differently. They could say they are doing a made for pre-order but that they will only move forward if they get enough orders to justify it to them for moving forward. They could say you get the car and these 4 (or how many they planned) figures for $350 but we will need a minimum 20k orders by the end of October or we wont do it. But phrasing it that way looses the physiological marketing aspect these things often generate. People who check in daily to see what number its at and people who run around social media posting about it on a regular basis giving them free publicity and so on and so fourth. 

If you knew everything upfront you would either order or not and then forget about it.

I'm gonna say it again, the number 1 reason this campaign is likely to fail is at the end of the day what they choose to make this time around just didnt have that wide of overall appeal. Its the exact reason why that Rancor and Lightsaber didnt get funded as well. Hasbro chose poorly with those things and for that they failed.

 

 

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They can reveal another tier at Hascon but i'm not sure it really will move the needle that much.  I still think it could make it to 9K in the end (and certainly hope so for the Robbie fans out there) but am dubious about it reaching any tiers, let alone a 2nd one after Mephisto.  Of course that surge in the end could turn out to be a huge but i think it more likely to go the other way like the Rancor (which lets not forget did come close to funding... hasbro kind of chose to bail on that one themselves imo)

Feels like McFarlane might have decided to troll hasbro by  a giant vehicle (the Batmobeast) for $50, that comes with a re-release of Death Metal Batman (granted no light up features).  more likely just coincidental timing though.

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On 9/27/2022 at 3:48 PM, MODADDYDODOK said:

Dan Yun already expressed that they wouldn’t be showing any more tiers. Don’t see him/them going back on that but I guess ya never know.

what he meant was that if Civie Robbie wasn't backed in time, they wouldn't show the tier THEN, not show the tiers at all. They will  show the tiers eventually. 

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