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Marvel Legends 2022 Haslab Live-Stream Coverage


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On 9/20/2022 at 4:36 PM, monron999 said:

True, but that's assuming they re-release a redeco/repaint of a figure that was previously done as an exclusive. I was talking in the sense that the project doesn't get funded. If the project never gets fully funded then the figures will never have been released and to release those characters under another format would have no effect on the exclusivity of a figure that was never done in the first place.

I too would be angry if i purchased a figure that was lauded as an exclusive only seen it done in a different shade, or even worse, with better accessories, at a later time. It is a common practice that many companies do. I wouldn't put it passed Hasbro.

Ah, yeah if it doesn't get funded (it will but for hypothetical...) I don't see why it couldn't be released.  Hasbro has actually been very good about keeping funded Haslab figures out of the rerelease.  Two years and no Bastian or Female Prime, not that they would be 'hot' releases or anything.  If they were to release any of the heralds that come with Galactus, I'd be out.  I think a general Mephisto release will be tripped up by whatever has been keeping him at bay for the past decade.  Whether it's for religious/image reasons, as some would have you believe, or other reasons.  There has to be a good reason he hasn't been put out there until this; people have been asking for him for ages now.  

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On 9/20/2022 at 12:44 PM, Typhis said:

Or they are just saying that so they can put him with haslab because they knew how underwhelming this haslab is... I also don't believe that he can't be sold in stores because they have released some figures just as or more demonic...Surtur looks more like the devil that Mephisto does... Ghost Rider- a guy with flaming skull. so do I think it's a lie when Hasbro says we can't make a figure because of what ever stupid reason...Yes.  Disney itself has released some questionable stuff.

There’s gotta be something else going on with Mephisto that’s different in their eyes, I have no idea exactly what, but otherwise they would have released him already, there have been people clamoring for him non-stop forever now. I highly doubt they’ve been specifically planning on him being included to sell this particular Haslab, though it’s entirely possible that they knew he would have to be released  somewhere like that. 

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On 9/20/2022 at 6:20 PM, Virtualzach said:

The moment they start re-releasing (or repainting or whatever) Haslab exclusive figures is the moment people stop backing them altogether.  I'd never buy any of these if I knew I could simply get a repaint a year later.  Most people wouldn't.  It's one of the most appealing elements of the projects; they actually offer a truly *exclusive* product.  

You mean like Silver Surfer? I seriously doubt he will never be released again.

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On 9/20/2022 at 9:55 PM, tarot said:

Um no. Not the same thing. Hades is not a devil. He is a god.

Not to mention he is in a children's cartoon. 

Hades is the ruler of the underworld is he not? And the fact that he calls himself a god should be worse for the idea that mephisto can’t be released due to religious blowback. Mephisto also rules the underworld and is from childrens comics. So what’s the difference exactly?

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On 9/21/2022 at 4:12 AM, LordVenger said:

Hades is the ruler of the underworld is he not? And the fact that he calls himself a god should be worse for the idea that mephisto can’t be released due to religious blowback. Mephisto also rules the underworld and is from childrens comics. So what’s the difference exactly?

The difference is that Hades is from Greek Mythology and from a pantheon that is no longer widely worshipped. Mephisto looks like the Devil from a major religion and certain followers of that religion get really pissy if the Devil is portrayed or worse sold to kids.

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On 9/20/2022 at 10:55 PM, leokearon said:

The difference is that Hades is from Greek Mythology and from a pantheon that is no longer widely worshipped. Mephisto looks like the Devil from a major religion and certain followers of that religion get really pissy if the Devil is portrayed or worse sold to kids.

Actually nowhere is the devil you're talking about, ever described as looking like Mephisto. If anything, they're referring to  folklore....which describes him looking exactly like the Surtur figure. That was sold at retail. Not to mention a number of other figures like Red Goblin and Blackheart.

Forget about Mephisto for a moment. The notion here is that someone may complain at some point. And that someone will no doubt be a person who never read a Marvel comic, never bought a statue or action figure, and never will. These hypothetical shareholders are, according to this notion, worried about someone who does not and will not buy their products, but they don't care about their actual customers, who do buy, want. Its bizarre and twisted. Where is all this concern when they produce Omega Sentinel with an incorrect head (and then say the mistake was because they get their info from google images...wow. Or forgetting the paint on Dormammu's head)? 

Also, it puts them in the position of saying "this" religion is more important than "that" religion.....its going down a rabbit hole they don't need to.  

I wish they cared more about putting out accurate figures and less about gouging for these over-priced items.

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On 9/21/2022 at 9:12 AM, Atlantis said:

Actually nowhere is the devil you're talking about, ever described as looking like Mephisto. If anything, they're referring to  folklore....which describes him looking exactly like the Surtur figure. That was sold at retail. Not to mention a number of other figures like Red Goblin and Blackheart.

Forget about Mephisto for a moment. The notion here is that someone may complain at some point. And that someone will no doubt be a person who never read a Marvel comic, never bought a statue or action figure, and never will. These hypothetical shareholders are, according to this notion, worried about someone who does not and will not buy their products, but they don't care about their actual customers, who do buy, want. Its bizarre and twisted. Where is all this concern when they produce Omega Sentinel with an incorrect head (and then say the mistake was because they get their info from google images...wow. Or forgetting the paint on Dormammu's head)? 

Also, it puts them in the position of saying "this" religion is more important than "that" religion.....its going down a rabbit hole they don't need to.  

I wish they cared more about putting out accurate figures and less about gouging for these over-priced items.

Yrue, but time and again companies don't want to upset moral guardians and mad bible belters for fear of bad publicity and media backlash from making a figure of the Divil.

 

Yeah  it would be nice if they cared what their customers think rather than an angry mob who don't even touch their products.

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On 9/21/2022 at 12:46 AM, leokearon said:

Yeah  it would be nice if they cared what their customers think rather than an angry mob who don't even touch their products.

$11 billion dollar mega corp should have enough guts to weather that storm, you'd think. They sure didn't have any lack of spine putting Madame Hydra out on the old, loathed buck lol.

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On 9/21/2022 at 3:12 AM, Atlantis said:

Actually nowhere is the devil you're talking about, ever described as looking like Mephisto. If anything, they're referring to  folklore....which describes him looking exactly like the Surtur figure. That was sold at retail. Not to mention a number of other figures like Red Goblin and Blackheart.

Forget about Mephisto for a moment. The notion here is that someone may complain at some point. And that someone will no doubt be a person who never read a Marvel comic, never bought a statue or action figure, and never will. These hypothetical shareholders are, according to this notion, worried about someone who does not and will not buy their products, but they don't care about their actual customers, who do buy, want. Its bizarre and twisted. Where is all this concern when they produce Omega Sentinel with an incorrect head (and then say the mistake was because they get their info from google images...wow. Or forgetting the paint on Dormammu's head)? 

Also, it puts them in the position of saying "this" religion is more important than "that" religion.....its going down a rabbit hole they don't need to.  

I wish they cared more about putting out accurate figures and less about gouging for these over-priced items.

This is true. The thing is somewhere through history society as a whole accepted that red guy with an evil smile as the standard depiction of what the Devil looks like and Mephisto looks like that. Now, I personally feel Hasbro or Marvel have no qualms about releasing a Devil-esque looking figure, cuz if you look hard enough you can see elements of devils in a large number of figures they've already done. My personal favorite, who's sadly next in line to be screwed up by Disney, Daredevil has a large devil like influence, yet they've done him many times.

I honestly think the reason they held off on Mephisto so long was several compounding factors. First, the Ghost Rider theatrical franchise was still in question for a long time. Marvel didn't know if they would ever get the movie rights back or when it would be able to put out a movie so they threw a few basic GR figures out and left a lot of the characters on the back burner till they hashed it out. Second, they knew an anniversary was coming shortly and they knew the needed some big characters, perhaps a Thanos type character, for this event. This is why I can't believe this will be the only time they intend to do a Mephisto. He is GR's biggest foe, the reason he is GR, the guy trying to take back GR's power. This is his Thanos. Third, I think they probably had other plans for Mephisto before they got the GR license back and they have since back tracked and have had to re-scheme his plans, which also held Marvel back from green lighting anything Mephisto related to this point. If you'll remember, he was rumored to be coming out in WandaVision, also in Doctor Strange 2, and I think those rumors might have been true at one time. Lastly, there has not been a 6" Mephisto done in any form at this point, not by Toybiz and not by Hasbro. I think they knew this was something they could hold on to for a long time and use it as an Ace Card some time in the future, such as what they are doing now. Now, if we miss out on this one, I really can't see them never doing a Mephisto ever. They'll change it, modernize it, maybe do some form of him in a BAF or Deluxe, but to think they'll never do it is just hard to fathom. I suppose one can compare this to Mandarin never having been done for Iron Man, but there are some other complicating factors involved there, and I think we all know what those probably are.

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On 9/21/2022 at 10:32 AM, Virtualzach said:

Surfer had already been released several times before Galactus--why would you consider that exclusive to the Haslab project?  Ask me about Morg or Nova.

Because he was still an unlockable that has seen a release outside of haslab. Not arguing the fact that people will stop backing these projects but the true exclusive product is the base project itself. The idea that a tier character should never be made again seems like a set up for disappointment, especially ones who are popular characters that can have different costumes or what not, like Mephisto here (who I’d very much hope to see in his classic look) or the hiss tank’s Cobra Commander, whose fans expect to see again. Makes more sense for obscure characters to fill those tier slots if they want folks to expect them to never be made again.

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Large companies always want to avoid any unnecessary negative publicity and possible boycotts of their products. This is just a bean counter bottom-line tenet of capitalism. Products marketed to children are also under even greater scrutiny, as they are seen as societies 'innocent', and thus society's responsibility to protect. All fair enough, we do live in the largest capitalist society the world has ever seen and it seems someone, somewhere will always try to sell almost anything to anyone, to make a buck. Add to that the religious right, conservative movement, women's rights, racial equality, and religious freedom movements that have been growing in our society since the 1960's, and you get the polarization we see in America today, ie company boycotts, cancel culture etc. Although we live in a more tolerant society as a whole for such things as religious, sexual, social, ethnic and racial tolerance today, there is also a strong backlash felt to such ideas, seen as threatening by some and as liberally dangerous, especially when tried to be placed into children's heads, or sold to them. Our society was founded by a group of brilliant, forward-thinking individual's, the likes of which had not been seen since the height of Athens, Greece. But even individuals like these were subject to the times and doctrines they lived in. Therefore, while they clearly saw a need for the separation of church and state, they were of Judao-Christian faiths. To this day, the currency we all handle on a daily basis says "In God We Trust" on it. This could easily be seen a hypocritical, or, perhaps with a deeper, more critical analyses, seen as how terribly difficult is to separate people's logic and thoughts of social equity from the beliefs and values they are taught from cradle to grave. While the number of people identifying with a particular religion continues to decline in our society, the bottom line is we are still a culture that was established on the beliefs and values of the Judao-Christian faith.  So, while more and more are not going to 'church' or worshiping in the traditional sense, there is still an underlying, largely held societal belief in demonic and devilish iconography being evil, bad and just plain wrong to market, especially to children.  It's one of the few things adults in our society can probably still agree on, especially when they are parents and trying to raise their children with what they feel are good beliefs, values and morals, whatever those may be to them. So, Joe or Jane America, being dragged down the toy isle by their excited kid, will not want to see themselves pulled up in front of a boxed figure that invokes any thoughts of the devil, satan, lucifer, asmodeus, etc. They are too busy paying mortgages, running kids to practices, balancing a household buget and trying to keep their marriages intact to think deeper about the devilish toy their kid is excited about and wants them to purchase. It is just one more thing they don't feel they should have to protect their children from.  So, while many/most on an adult collector forum like this one may dissect the logical thought process of having flaming headed, demon possessed, and/or sinister looking figures like Ghost Rider, Surtur and Dormammu on the shelves middle-America shops from, but not Mephisto, Belasco, etc. it just doesn't matter to parents. They just don't want to see it and have to deal with the issues it will raise in their households. They just want our society's corporations to market responsibly, and our taxpayer funded government to regulate vigorously when it comes to children. So, while we have the luxury here of debating the ethical, moral, and hypocritical dilemmas of marketing red-skulled Nazi's and flaming demonic figures to kids, but not giving adult collectors a classic comic book villain in plastic form, it simply just doesn't matter to the rest of our society as a whole, especially parents. 

If you were waiting for me to get to my point, it is this: we here are not power brokers, parents, social influencers and heads of state or corporations the make these kinds of decisions. We are adults that buy what are traditionally considered to be children's toys... not exactly the seat of power and influence. So, I can understand, and so should we all, that when the Hasbro marketing teams says this is the only format they will be able to give us Mephisto in, there may be some real truth to it. Hasbro does not want to upset the money-making apple cart. Giving adult collectors a character, they have been screaming for, for close to twenty years, but making it economically and distributionally out of children's reach and out of parent's sight, can be seen as the best path forward for a corporation interested in making profits, but not incurring losses in image, or revenue, in the process.

Having said all that, I just wanted to say, I feel that since the Mephisto tier has been officially unlocked, I now feel a much stronger pull to backing this Haslab product. And it will be interesting to see what other unsavory characters Hasbro might see fit to give us in other tiers... Zarathos, the Spirit of Vengeance, is after all another demon/devil, is he not? Stay tuned true believers!

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On 9/21/2022 at 12:36 PM, Jormungand said:

Large companies always want to avoid any unnecessary negative publicity and possible boycotts of their products. This is just a bean counter bottom-line tenet of capitalism. Products marketed to children are also under even greater scrutiny, as they are seen as societies 'innocent', and thus society's responsibility to protect. All fair enough, we do live in the largest capitalist society the world has ever seen and it seems someone, somewhere will always try to sell almost anything to anyone to make a buck. Add to that the religious right, conservative movement, women's rights, racial equality, and religious freedom movements that have been growing in our society since the 1960's, and you get the polarization we see in America today, ie company boycotts, cancel culture etc. Although we live in a more tolerant society as a whole for such things as religious, sexual, social, ethnic and racial tolerance today, there is also a strong backlash felt to such ideas, seen as threatening by some and as liberally dangerous, especially when tried to be put into children's heads, or sold to them. Our society was founded by a group of brilliant, forward-thinking individual's, the likes of which had not been seen since the height of Athens, Greece. But even individuals like these were subject to the times and doctrines they lived in. Therefore, while they clearly saw a need for the separation of church and state, they were of Judao-Christian faiths. To this day, the currency we all handle on a daily basis says "In God We Trust" on it. This could easily be seen a hypocritical, or, perhaps with a deeper, more critical analyses, seen as how terribly difficult is to separate people's logic and thoughts of social equity from the beliefs and values they are taught from cradle to grave. While the number of people identifying with a particular religion continues to decline in our society, the bottom line is we are still a culture that was established on the beliefs and values of the Judao-Christian faith.  So, while more and more are not going to 'church' or worshiping in the traditional sense, there is still an underlying, largely held societal belief in demonic and devilish iconography being evil, bad and just plain wrong to market, especially to children.  It's one of the few things adults in our society can probably still agree on, especially when they are parents and trying to raise their children with what they feel are good beliefs, values and morals, whatever those may be to them. So, Joe or Jane America, being dragged down the toy isle by their excited kid, will not want to see themselves pulled up in front of a boxed figure that invokes any thoughts of the devil, satan, asmodeus, etc. They are too busy paying mortgages, running kids to practices, balancing a household buget and trying to keep their marriages intact to think deeper about the devilish toy their kid is excited about and want them to purchase. It is just one more thing they don't feel they should have to protect their children from.  So, while many/most on an adult collector forum like this one may dissect the logical thought process of having flaming headed, demon possessed, or sinister looking figures like Ghost Rider, Surtur and Dormammu on the shelves middle-America shops from, but not Mephisto, Belasco, etc. it just doesn't matter to parents. They just don't want to see it and have to deal with the issues it will raise in their households. They just want our society's corporations to market responsibly, and our taxpayer funded government to regulate vigorously when it comes to children. So, while we have the luxury here of debating the ethical, moral, and hypocritical dilemmas of marketing red-skulled Nazi's and flaming demonic figures to kids, but not giving adult collectors a classic comic book villain in plastic form, it simply just doesn't matter to the rest of our society as a whole, especially parents. 

If you were waiting for me to get to my point, it is this: we here are not power brokers, parents, social influencers and heads of corporations and states the make these kinds of decisions. We are adults that buy what are traditionally considered to be children's toys... not exactly the seat of power and influence. So, I can understand, and so should we all, that when the Hasbro marketing teams says this is the only format they will be able to give us Mephisto in, there may be some real truth to it. Hasbro does not want to upset the money-making apple cart. Giving adult collectors a character, they have been screaming for, for close to twenty years, but making it economically and distributionally out of children's hands and out of parent's sight, can be seen as the best path forward for a corporation interested in making profits but not incurring losses in image, or revenue in the process.

Having said all that, I just wanted to say, I feel that since the Mephisto tier has been officially released, I now feel a much stronger pull to backing this Haslab product. And it will be interesting to see what other unsavory characters Hasbro might see fit to give us in other tiers. Stay tuned true believers!

Great points and very well executed. The only thing I would say is that this is a comic book character. Children have been exposed to him for decades. Children were exposed to him in times that were much more intolerant and yet the character was never removed or changed to look less like a demon because it wasn’t seen as necessary. He is an imaginary character that looks evil because he is a villain 

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On 9/21/2022 at 6:52 PM, LordVenger said:

Great points and very well executed. The only thing I would say is that this is a comic book character. Children have been exposed to him for decades. Children were exposed to him in times that were much more intolerant and yet the character was never removed or changed to look less like a demon because it wasn’t seen as necessary. He is an imaginary character that looks evil because he is a villain 

Sadly that doesn't matter as far as Parents, Moral Guardians and the like are concerned. Back in the 90's, they gave out about Lord Zedd for being to evil and scary despite that was the point and kids thought he was great. But the Moral Guardians won and Zedd was nerfed.

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On 9/21/2022 at 10:05 AM, MODADDYDODOK said:

Because he was still an unlockable that has seen a release outside of haslab. Not arguing the fact that people will stop backing these projects but the true exclusive product is the base project itself. The idea that a tier character should never be made again seems like a set up for disappointment, especially ones who are popular characters that can have different costumes or what not, like Mephisto here (who I’d very much hope to see in his classic look) or the hiss tank’s Cobra Commander, whose fans expect to see again. Makes more sense for obscure characters to fill those tier slots if they want folks to expect them to never be made again.

He was an unlockable that was seen outside of Haslab *before* the project and tier was announced.  It's a very important distinction.  It's your opinion that the unlockables should be the only exclusive part of the project but I think you'll find it's a very unpopular one.  Many people would not back these without the tier rewards and exclusivity of said rewards.  If they want to put create some cartoony comic version of Mephisto that looks nothing like the Haslab version, I wouldn't care much about that.  But if they're going to paint him a different shade of red and throw in some "clothes", that would definitely discourage me from backing a future project.  

For the record, I backed the HISS tank and in large part because of that final 'classic' Cobra Commander. And the fact that it couldn't be obtained any other way.  I didn't see anyone on the Classified Reddit subs or discord saying they expect to see it again.  On the contrary, every one of us who backed the HISS do *not* want or expect to see him released in that sculpt again.  

As I said before, exclusivity is what inspires people to back these products.  No tiers in a funded Haslab have seen a rerelease in any form so I don't see why they would suddenly start now.  This is just rhetoric that I've heard from non-backers on previous projects.  

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On 9/21/2022 at 10:52 AM, LordVenger said:

Great points and very well executed. The only thing I would say is that this is a comic book character. Children have been exposed to him for decades. Children were exposed to him in times that were much more intolerant and yet the character was never removed or changed to look less like a demon because it wasn’t seen as necessary. He is an imaginary character that looks evil because he is a villain 

I don't know, intolerance seems to be making a comeback these days.  You used to be able to have swear words in PG movies and some nudity in PG-13.  And, with all of the controversies, both racial and political of late, it's almost becoming a crime to even think independently.  But I digress...the same people who would have complained about this 30 years ago and claimed that video games were training devices for serial killers are the same people who would complain about it now.  And there are a lot of them.  And a lot of them buy Disney toys.  The only difference is that the Disney brand is enormous and all-encompassing now.  So they have to pick their battles when it comes to this sort of thing and releasing Satan in plastic form probably isn't one worth fighting for them.  

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On 9/21/2022 at 2:00 PM, Virtualzach said:

He was an unlockable that was seen outside of Haslab *before* the project and tier was announced.  It's a very important distinction.

Yes I’m aware of that, but I guess what I’m saying is would it bother you or turn you off to future projects if they released another Surfer some day after the haslab? Because as a huge Surfer fan myself, I’d personally like to see him on a taller broader body even though I backed that project.

On 9/21/2022 at 2:00 PM, Virtualzach said:

 It's your opinion that the unlockables should be the only exclusive part of the project but I think you'll find it's a very unpopular one.  Many people would not back these without the tier rewards and exclusivity of said rewards.  If they want to put create some cartoony comic version of Mephisto that looks nothing like the Haslab version, I wouldn't care much about that.  But if they're going to paint him a different shade of red and throw in some "clothes", that would definitely discourage me from backing a future project.  

my opinion was that I don’t think characters should necessarily be ‘one and done’ after a haslab - mainly referring to characters who have other desired versions/costumes/whatever. I understand staying exclusive to the projects if its characters that basically have one look. That’s all I was saying.

On 9/21/2022 at 2:00 PM, Virtualzach said:

For the record, I backed the HISS tank and in large part because of that final 'classic' Cobra Commander. And the fact that it couldn't be obtained any other way.  I didn't see anyone on the Classified Reddit subs or discord saying they expect to see it again.  On the contrary, every one of us who backed the HISS do *not* want or expect to see him released in that sculpt again.  

As I said before, exclusivity is what inspires people to back these products.  No tiers in a funded Haslab have seen a rerelease in any form so I don't see why they would suddenly start now.  This is just rhetoric that I've heard from non-backers on previous projects.  

 I backed the hiss tank as well and there are definitely folks who they think they’ll release another version on that buck. The only real fact there is that CoCo will not be released with the misprint logo again, which is an odd choice to go with if they aren’t gonna put him on that buck another time. But of course Hasbro won’t be rereleasing any tier offerings this early bc Haslab is still very young as we’ve only got 1 project delivered between ML and Classified. I reckon only years of time will tell unless they throw down some solid confirmations.  
The psychological game that they play really makes me hate this hobby at times hah.

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eh, even if they did have plans to rerelease mephisto in some other format if his tier isn't reached, they're not going to say anything about that right now when they are trying to motivate everyone to back the haslab. 

I do tend to believe hasbro when they say they would not likely have a mass retail release for Mephisto. However,  I do think if the haslab fails or just doesn't hit the tiers, we could end up seeing him in some sort of pulse exclusive set but that probably wouldn't be for a few years - hasbro certainly would not want to set a precedent since it would defeat the point of having tiers in the 1st place. 

as for the complaints about paying $350 if they only want Mephisto, i can empathize to a degree but at the same time its not that much different from Hasbro releasing sets.  Often there is only character the consumer wants but you have to buy the whole set anyhow.  I wanted Mastermind and Callisto but couldn't get either without also shelling out for 3 figures i didn't want. so i passed. maybe eventually i'll shell out the $30 or so aftermarket prices.  again it does kinda suck but its a long-standing component of ML's business strategy (along with BAFs). 

 Collectors will have to decide for themselves whether getting Mephisto is important enough to them to either shell out for the haslab, wait for the aftermarket on ML Mephisto, try and get an old select Mephisto, or get some customizer to make one for them.  My guess w/o doing any research is that aside from the haslab, the other options for getting mephisto will probably run about $100. That's too rich for me but collectors will have to make that subjective decision about how important Mephisto is for their collection.

 

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On 9/21/2022 at 2:10 PM, Virtualzach said:

I don't know, intolerance seems to be making a comeback these days.  You used to be able to have swear words in PG movies and some nudity in PG-13.  And, with all of the controversies, both racial and political of late, it's almost becoming a crime to even think independently.  But I digress...the same people who would have complained about this 30 years ago and claimed that video games were training devices for serial killers are the same people who would complain about it now.  And there are a lot of them.  And a lot of them buy Disney toys.  The only difference is that the Disney brand is enormous and all-encompassing now.  So they have to pick their battles when it comes to this sort of thing and releasing Satan in plastic form probably isn't one worth fighting for them.  

I totally get what your saying. The thing is they didn’t give in to those folks then and stop making video games nor have they now even though many people still feel that way. And while many people are using phrases like satan in plastic form, Mephisto isn’t satan any more than disneys hades is satan. 

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